Breeder doesn’t allow visits… walk away?

[Hawknotdove]

Hello,

I’ve found a breeder locally with puppies available in the autumn. She seems legitimate in most respects - pictures of her showing dogs and winning Crufts all over FB, sent me vetting questionnaire, then video call and wants to do a home visit. Seems dog-obsessed and has sent me hand-written info sheets on diet, care etc. She comes across as someone who lives for her dogs - possibly to the point of being a bit obsessive.

However, she says she doesn’t allow visits to her own home. She says she will pick 1 or 2 pups (depending on size of litter) than she thinks are a good fit for our family and bring them to my house with the mother when they are old enough. Also, when I did a call to meet her and the dogs, they didn’t appear to be in her house (she says they live in the house but it looked like she’d taken them to a barn for the call).

Finally, she’s bred in line so they have an in-breeding coefficient that’s higher than the breed average.

Shes’s KC assured and the parents are fully health screened.

Honestly, it’s such a mine field!!!

Walk away?

I would appreciate advice. You’ve all been so helpful so far!

Puppy farm 🚩

Never buy a pup without seeing it with mum and where it’s been reared.

@Hawknotdove i would definitely look elsewhere for your puppy. As a breeder myself I always allow people to visit. We usually allow a second visit after they have selected a puppy too, so the family can see the progress. It’s important to see the environment the puppies have been growing up in and also the rest of the siblings to ensure your puppy is coming from a healthy litter. Good luck in your search 😊

If the inbreeding number is higher than average then she is not a responsible breeder.

If she won't allow you to see the pups in situ with mum then she is not a responsible breeder.

Sorry but I absolutely think you should walk away and report.

I did visit my breeder but only went in the kitchen. I was buying a cavalier King Charles. I’m still not convinced he is a pure cavalier and I have no papers for him. He is bigger than average and has a longer muzzle and his fur doesn’t grow quite so long. However he is perfect for me. He has no health issues due to being bigger and having a better length muzzle, sweet natured and very much a spaniel in that he loves being active and long walks. He might just be a throw back to a mix in his line as he was the biggest puppy in the litter.

But I knew I wasn’t buying from a professional and that was ok because I’d not been made to think otherwise. I’d definitely want some evidence that they were being raised at her home even if you couldn’t visit such as video calls as they were growing etc.

Also, when I did a call to meet her and the dogs, they didn’t appear to be in her house (she says they live in the house but it looked like she’d taken them to a barn for the call)

Giant red flag right there.

As someone who had a puppy years ago who was ‘KC assured’ and whatever else and then there was a lot of fall out with them afterwards due to a long list of issues, let me tell you KC assurance means nothing. When you start to learn about Kennel Club and the things they support, you realise it’s bullshit.

DO NOT engage here. Walk away and do not look back.

Id never get another puppy, I’d always rescue but I get that people still refuse to do that. If you are going to get a puppy, make sure you see the babies with mum - and that they are that mums puppies a before you even consider.

Yes please do this. If it's all legit she won't mind a visit. Some of these dogs are kept in horrendous conditions. Please report.

Definitely sounds suspicious. You want to meet the puppies and mum at her house.

I had a friend who bought a cockapoo in a car park. Paid a lot ended up with a 4 week old mixed breed (as in no specific known breed) poor thing had worms and fleas. They were told she was 8 weeks.

Even when I bought my lab, we did everything correctly mum and dad kc registered saw them both at house , met pups. Had regular updates/videos. Took one home realised about a year in there's no way he's pure lab, he's too big! He's got German shepherd in him. We assume the German shepherd they had living in the garden was actually dad.

Massive red flags and I say this as someone who’s imported a puppy from Europe without meeting beforehand but having completed as much due diligence as possible.

Walk away. Just out of interest what breed?

Walk away for sure.
When we got our first dog we visited the breeder in her home and met mum, dad and saw all the puppies. She made sure we washed our hands on arrival and sanitised and then interviewed us as to our suitability. We visited her house a couple of times and all her dogs lived in the house and were family dogs as well has her showing them. We went on to have another puppy from her a couple of years later. You don't even know that the mum and dad she is offering to bring to your house are the actual parents or that she even owns them.
The in-breeding coefficient would also put me right off. The dogs will have the potential to have serious health issues in the future.

This is very good advice.

And, equally, KC Assured breeders are absolutely no guarantee of quality. Please do not be fooled by this. Many assured breeders are puppy farmers, and many good breeders are not Assured because of the scheme’s flaws.

My advice to buy a healthy pup who is typical of their breed in both looks AND temperament is to find a breeder who:

• health tests as recommended by the breed clubs (and many good breeders go well above that)
• welcomes you in to their home to discuss the breed
• asks you as many questions on whether you’re good enough for one of their carefully reared pups as you ask them
• has dogs around of good temperament
• has oldies around to demonstrate longevity.

Find one of these gems, then wait until they have a puppy available for you. There are plenty of them out there.

Many red flags here - I’d walk away from this!
Last year there was a scandal about a former agility champion (lives in Devon) who was running a puppy farm.

she would never let people go on the premises and would have pups lined up for people in advance. I’d steer clear!

Walk away. Why don't you consider getting a dog from a Rescue Centre? They are all full with dogs needing a good home.

I'd report to kennel club & the local authority. I'd also report to RSPCA actually all sounds very fishy
Definitely walk away.

No, I would walk away.

I totally agree with the breeder picking a puppy for you rather than you picking a puppy. Most people for for how a puppy looks rather than it's personality but she can't do that if she doesn't see you with the puppies or meets you properly.

My dogs breeder met me, and we spoke for ages over tea and biscuits. I met her dogs afterwards and carried on chatting.

When the puppies were born they were all given their collar colours and we were kept up to date with their progress etc. when the pups were 7 weeks, we were told which ones we were getting. I didn't get the puppy I 'liked' but she picked the best dog for me and my children.

By not allowing you to see the puppies, she's not able to see how you are at all. Not only that, but she's not letting you see all the puppies together with their mum. The barn thing is a red flag too...

I suspect it’s this.

It isn’t necessarily a problem in that I think houses with lots of animals ( especially dogs) must be hard to keep presentable ( dog hair etc) yet that possibly isn’t an issue for the dogs themselves. She might just feel a bit judged by the humans for something that isn’t dog relevant.

Then again, the conditions could be awful - caged dogs etc. And that’s the problem . It’s probably fine, but you don’t know.

She’d be better to let you think she had quite a lot of dog hair on her sofa and to notice a couple of litter trays than to leave you imaging worse.

I also want to add, reading through some of the comments, that yes, a waitlist is actually quite important, you should be on one, you should also have information about the dad.

KC also is not necessarily a green flag, it should be, but let's face it, they don't seem that interested in the actual welfare of dog breeds at the moment so...

This has a sea of red flags - please report and move on - alternatively try a rescue. There are hundreds of dogs sitting in rescue - no need to breed more. Just adding to the problem.

Absolutely not.

Plenty of rescues will find you a dog that's suitable for primary age children.

Please report this breeder, the lack of home visit and in-breeding is a huge red flag.

Waiting for a puppy is advisable but the co-efficient is high so I’d walk. Not being able to visit is odd. Most breeders will ask that you don’t visit more than one litter a day, but no visits is weird. The breed isn’t so unusual that you won’t find another litter. KC registered is pointless when the KC will register puppies whose parents have crap health scores/massive co-efficients.

On a personal note, I’d want very good elbow/hip scores for both parents.

if you still think this person might be reputable … (certain they are not). If in this type of “business” you have customers and can’t be hiding)

What veterinarian does she use? Has she disclosed this? You could visit to the Vet and ask careful questions.

Must be other records about this breeder at Crufts, breed association. The “superior bloodline” is a red flag, coupled with her closed door policy.

There are a lot of crazy & scammers. Try to adopt thru someone who doesn’t make you nervous.

Walk away and report.