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Original poster

Breeder doesn’t allow visits… walk away?

230 replies

Hawknotdove · 19/06/2024 13:27

Hello,

I’ve found a breeder locally with puppies available in the autumn. She seems legitimate in most respects - pictures of her showing dogs and winning Crufts all over FB, sent me vetting questionnaire, then video call and wants to do a home visit. Seems dog-obsessed and has sent me hand-written info sheets on diet, care etc. She comes across as someone who lives for her dogs - possibly to the point of being a bit obsessive.

However, she says she doesn’t allow visits to her own home. She says she will pick 1 or 2 pups (depending on size of litter) than she thinks are a good fit for our family and bring them to my house with the mother when they are old enough. Also, when I did a call to meet her and the dogs, they didn’t appear to be in her house (she says they live in the house but it looked like she’d taken them to a barn for the call).

Finally, she’s bred in line so they have an in-breeding coefficient that’s higher than the breed average.

Shes’s KC assured and the parents are fully health screened.

Honestly, it’s such a mine field!!!

Walk away?

I would appreciate advice. You’ve all been so helpful so far!

OP posts:
Killingoffmyflowersonebyone · 19/06/2024 15:06

Some breeders don't like visits in their homes because their dog is incredibly valuable and they're very worried about it and the pups being stolen - I know a breeder like this. She'll only let prospective buyers have her address after she has thoroughly vetted them - but she does let them have her address to meet the pups in person.

However, I would say KC Assured means sweet fuck all. There's a Golden Retriever breeder near me who is KC Assured yet she's had four litters in the last year from four different bitches. So she has four dogs. And a litter at a time...hard to believe she's actually looking after the dogs at all tbh.

Inbreeding coefficient isn't the end of the world. It's a factor to consider when buying a puppy but not the most important. One of mine is above average (3% above), but my dogs hip and elbow scores are amongst the best I've ever seen for his breed.

What breed is the dog?

Wolfiefan · 19/06/2024 15:14

Another one saying Crufts and KC mean very very little.
You have no idea if the dogs are living a life of luxury in the house or being bred to death in a shed with little human contact.
Have you contacted the breed club of the breed you are interested in?

CormorantStrikesBack · 19/06/2024 15:14

I’d walk away. I got a dog from a breeder who had won best in breed at crufts with her dogs multiple times going back decades. I drove 6 hrs to get the dog and turned up and realised there were dogs in barns and stables. I should have walked away. But in the house there’s trophies and rosettes everywhere, thousands. That dog was a total psycho nightmare. KC registered cruft winners can be puppy farmers. Oh and she ran the breed club too!

AnCùDubh · 19/06/2024 15:17

ScoobyDoesnt · 19/06/2024 13:43

Puppies in the autumn? So there are no actual puppies yet, and no guarantee the bitch will get pregnant or how many puppies there’ll be?

Walk away!

This is the least worrying part. All the good breeders I know have a waitlist. And announce planned matings in advance

pigsDOfly · 19/06/2024 15:22

Agree with everyone else. Walk away.

When I got my puppy 13 years ago the breeder asked my to come and see them, which I was able to do several times before I finally picked her up, and I actually chose the puppy I wanted; the one that tried to sneak more food from mum when the other puppies had gone to sleep, although that wasn't the only reason I chose her.

Yes, if she doesn't want you to see the puppies with mum in their own environment where they're secure and comfortable, or they should be, then she's got something to hide.

This sounds like a puppy farms.

muddyford · 19/06/2024 15:37

Killingoffmyflowersonebyone · 19/06/2024 15:06

Some breeders don't like visits in their homes because their dog is incredibly valuable and they're very worried about it and the pups being stolen - I know a breeder like this. She'll only let prospective buyers have her address after she has thoroughly vetted them - but she does let them have her address to meet the pups in person.

However, I would say KC Assured means sweet fuck all. There's a Golden Retriever breeder near me who is KC Assured yet she's had four litters in the last year from four different bitches. So she has four dogs. And a litter at a time...hard to believe she's actually looking after the dogs at all tbh.

Inbreeding coefficient isn't the end of the world. It's a factor to consider when buying a puppy but not the most important. One of mine is above average (3% above), but my dogs hip and elbow scores are amongst the best I've ever seen for his breed.

What breed is the dog?

Edited

Our breeder was like this. We were eight months on the waiting list. After the puppies were born we got at least daily videos. Puppies were clearly being reared in the house, then when they were old enough they were in a huge covered run outside during the day. I was thoroughly vetted before I collected our puppy. I asked for the boldest dog and that's what I got. The boldest bitch went to be an assistance dog with a national charity.

OrlandointheWilderness · 19/06/2024 15:38

Walk away from higher inbreeding co efficiency. A good breeder will do their very best for their dogs and this puts them at increased risk of health issues.
I wouldn't ever buy a pup from a place I couldn't visit, a good breeder will welcome scrutiny.

Hoppinggreen · 19/06/2024 15:41

My dog is KC Reg and I have all his papers etc.
Only he's from a puppy farm and his papers may not even be his.

Steakandwine · 19/06/2024 16:37

Sounds like a puppy mill to me, most breeders will allow you to come view all the pups and the parents. It's not down to security as most will have cameras and ask for your details beforehand.

Id avoid.

hairbearbunches · 19/06/2024 17:01

Finally, she’s bred in line so they have an in-breeding coefficient that’s higher than the breed average.

So she's doing it for the money then. No responsible breeder or anyone who puts dog welfare front and centre of their decisions would have done this. It only takes a few like this and in a very short space of time, the breed is completely screwed. Out of interest, what breed is it?

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 19/06/2024 17:06

Absolutely no.
Throw this one back. I’d suspect the breeding set up is poor and she doesn’t want people finding out

FuzzyStripes · 19/06/2024 17:16

Another vote to say walk away. There is something going on.

DiscoBeat · 19/06/2024 17:20

If you were proud of your breeding set up you'd want to show it off. Both times I bought a puppies I saw them with their mother at the breeder's addresses. In fact we've we're encouraged to visit more than once and actually went 4 times last time. Sounds so suspicious (and report).

mondaytosunday · 19/06/2024 17:56

Always visit in their home. And I wouldn't want a puppy selected for me either

EdithStourton · 19/06/2024 18:13

Walk. Or, indeed, run.

We've bought 4 puppies over the years. We saw three of them twice with the dam at the breeders before they came home. One we didn't see, due to COVID, but we were able to collect and I knew the breeder well in any case.

A high COI is a massive no-no too. Paper COIs are generally lower than the genetic reality, too.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 19/06/2024 18:19

@Hawknotdove definitely run!! the co efficient is far improved when it is 0.00!!! less chance of inherited illnesses! just because she shows and wins at crufts does not mean does not mean that she is accredited breeder! my daughter bred dogs but normally only 1 or maximum of 2 litters per year because it is a heck of a lot of work. she worked on a co efficient of less than 1. she may very well be having 10 litters a year which puts her in the backyard breeder category. I dont know any breeders who do not allow potential purchases to view the whole litter and the surroundings in which the puppies are brought up. you should always see the bitch even though you cannot always view the sire.

mumda · 19/06/2024 18:50

RoobarbAndMustard · 19/06/2024 13:51

Dog breeders are supposed to be licensed by their local authority and inspected. Maybe contact the LA and check she's got a license. I would definitely be suspicious based on what's you've posted.

This is what I'd do.

Poke at it with a long stick. It smells.

Original poster
Hawknotdove · 19/06/2024 19:11

Thanks all. You’ve confirmed my fears. Just wanted to check this wasn’t now “normal” post covid.

I suspect she may just be so dog-obsessed that she’s not v good with people and her house isn’t v presentable. But that’s giving the benefit of doubt. As you all rightly say, the risk is that they’re kennelled or it’s a con. Back to square one. It’s so hard to find a good breeder 😩

OP posts:
Louise303 · 19/06/2024 19:43

It could be that the dog is expensive a lot of breeders ask for proof of identity I was asked to send a picture of my driving license before a viewing. It is a big red flag that she does not want you to come to her house sounds like she may be hiding something. I would find out if she is licensed and ask for reviews from anyone that previously bought a puppy. Good breeders will normally stay in contact with anyone buying a puppy for any advice. Some breeders are very clever at conning people make sure you get a photo of the mum nursing the puppies. Ask for a print out of both parents vet history it shouldn't be a problem for her if the dogs are healthy. If you have the parents kc names you will be able to find out info on how many previous litters the mum has had hopefully she is not bred every season.

ActivePeony · 19/06/2024 20:01

C1N1C · 19/06/2024 13:29

Run! (And possibly report too)

Probably has something to hide...

This.

BoobyDazzler · 19/06/2024 20:13

It would be a hard no from me. You need to see the environment they’ve been raised it and meet the dam. If the bitch is unsociable, anxious around strangers or aggressive then the chances are those traits could pass to her pups. They might be a perfect and healthy example of the breed but have an unappealing personality.

schloss · 19/06/2024 20:20

@Hawknotdove Have you actually asked the breeder the question of why she will not allow visits? You say she does not allow it, but have you communicated with her more?

There is a big difference between line breeding and in breeding and COI may be higher for smaller breeds.

Which breed is it?

Peonies12 · 19/06/2024 20:21

Definitely walk away and consider reporting. And how is she trying to sell puppies that don’t exist yet?

JemOfAWoman · 19/06/2024 20:45

I got my boy during lockdown so couldn't visit but the breeder set up a FB group for the litter and I could see him grow. When it came to collect him the breeder popped him in a crate by the gate as we drove up and I collected him from the crate and we then discussed him for an hour before I drove off with a boy that has become a piece of my heart. No reputable breeder would do what you are saying.