Breeder doesn’t allow visits… walk away?

[Hawknotdove]

Hello,

I’ve found a breeder locally with puppies available in the autumn. She seems legitimate in most respects - pictures of her showing dogs and winning Crufts all over FB, sent me vetting questionnaire, then video call and wants to do a home visit. Seems dog-obsessed and has sent me hand-written info sheets on diet, care etc. She comes across as someone who lives for her dogs - possibly to the point of being a bit obsessive.

However, she says she doesn’t allow visits to her own home. She says she will pick 1 or 2 pups (depending on size of litter) than she thinks are a good fit for our family and bring them to my house with the mother when they are old enough. Also, when I did a call to meet her and the dogs, they didn’t appear to be in her house (she says they live in the house but it looked like she’d taken them to a barn for the call).

Finally, she’s bred in line so they have an in-breeding coefficient that’s higher than the breed average.

Shes’s KC assured and the parents are fully health screened.

Honestly, it’s such a mine field!!!

Walk away?

I would appreciate advice. You’ve all been so helpful so far!

The not visiting at the home I can understand there have been some violent robberies because pups are worth stealing now.

The inbreeding is a complete no no

Unscrupulous breeders are known to rent houses and put on a lovely family show when selling puppies. Many women are involved in this as well as men.
Once the litter is sold they just shut up shop and move on. Without naming certain sectors of society, my charity used to have to deal with folk who moved around the UK a lot, bred litter after litter from a bitch, then dumped mum onto us when she could no longer have pups/was old/sick, only to rinse and repeat all over again. Inbreeding was the least of their concerns.

Facebook may as well be Pre-Loved. It's online advertising with no regulations. If you want a safer option, look at Champdogs' website. Most of the beeeders on there health test and you can see exactly which tests have been done.

www.champdogs.co.uk/breeds

Good luck 🐾

She’s hiding something. There is no way I would go ahead. The pups need to be raised in a home from the start so they are used to everything (noises like the TV, dishwasher, washing machine, kids etc).

I don't know anything about dogs but if I was buying a puppy I'd definitely want to see it in it's home environment. I'd be uneasy about any breeder who doesn't allow visits to her home, especially as she wants to visit and inspect yours! I'd look elsewhere.

7 is too old if she cared about her girl she would not breed her at this age this might not be the mum.I know bad breeders will use kc papers to get more money they buy puppies from pets4homes with no papers and sell them on for a profit. If there not licensed they are only allowed to kc three litters a year with the kennel club so they use family addresses also. If they have more than one girl with puppies they will sell both litters under the one girls name saying she had 8 puppies instead of what she really had.

Personally I'd walk away too. I got my puppy from a litter of 12 pups who spent weeks 4-8 in an outdoor kennel. Looking back I suspect he was seperated from his Mum before 8 weeks too as some breeders with outdoor spaces seem to do (I dont know why). My pup's breeder was highly experienced with show background too. If I ever get another puppy I'll prioritise much more highly environment she's come from in those crucial early weeks. They're so important to development are to development. I'd definately only get a future puppy if I was 100% certain she had been raised fully indoors by multiple loving people (e.g. family) who handled her lots.
I love my pup but he doesn't enjoy stroking, cuddles or praise the way most dogs do. When I went to visit he didn't give that enthusiastic 'I love people' puppy greeting either. I blame those early weeks not being used to level of handling he would have gotten in a home. I really would want to see where they've been living. Sounds like you're willing to wait which will stand you in good stead to be discerning which it really sounds like you are being too. Good luck.

That's a back street / puppy farm. 100%. Don't even think about it. Leave.

Don’t walk run!

you could be supporting someone that’s mistreating dogs. Could be a puppy mill, could be anything.

as you’re considering an in bread dog you aren’t showing this dog. So head to your local rescue and fall in love! Rather than allowing someone to profit off misusing their dog.

Please walk away you are setting yourself up for alot of heartache and expense. Any decent breeder will allow you into their home to choose from the litter. The inbreeding is also a massive red flag. Sorry OP but looks like an unscrupulous con artist of a breeder to me.

I agree di not even consider it

Plenty of breeders don't allow visitors. Deadly viruses being brought in on shoes / clothing, dog theft, too much time wasted by people who stuff them around.

It is important to take the time to find the right breeder for you, though.

Seven is too old for a bigger dog. A border terrier at this age is very much in her prime.

Pretty sure the KC advice is to visit the breeder ‘at home’ and meet both parents id poss, but definitely the mother/dam(?). I’d be calling the KC about this one.

When we adopted out springer spaniel, we were allowed to visit three times - once with each child/teen (both on spectrum) and once with our existing sprocker to make sure he would be good with a puppy. Had to send evidence of garden/home (photos with the dog we already had in it etc) and fill in a lifestyle questionnaire to evidence we would not be leaving him at home 6-8hrs with the occasional dog walker visit. Felt very reassured,

walk away…. I am qualified in animal welfare I know breeders who un alive pups that don’t measure up this can’t be determined until 6/8 weeks old in some cases breeder Bailey has un alived her customers dogs because they upset her
if you can’t see pups with mum growing up then it’s a greeder

Absolute rubbish if a breeder can not put protocols in place to protect pups then the are greeders interested only in money

That’s pretty normal though, breeders hold waiting lists and if the bitch doesn’t get pregnant then they wait longer or find someone else.

Kc cut off is 8 years regardless of breed due to the aging process of canines this isn’t controlled by size so a border terrier would not be in its prime at this age

Alarm bells and red flags galore. When my friends dog had puppies new owners visited regularly and she even had an open house where people who were interested in the litter came including some highly respected judges as the bitch was an athletic girl and the sire was a show dog so there was a lot of curiosity about the litter.
Also her mum breeds pedigree cats and new owners travel from all over the country to come and visit

I have bred dogs in the past which have been KC registered.

I can see where the breeder is coming from with respects to…..

Germs and dog theft… I do not have anyone visiting until the pups are minimum 7 weeks old and I do not give out my address to prospective new owners until a couple of days prior to their initial visit.

Choosing a dog for a new owner rather than new owner choosing their fur baby.
If the breeder is experienced, they will know very early on what the dog’s temperament is potentially going to be -
puppies that have attitude and drive so they will be ideal for working dogs or a very active family.
The calmer, easy going puppies would be more suited for families with children.
Puppies that show good stance, coats are probably more suited to enthusiasts that want to show .

As a breeder, for example, if I had a litter of 6 puppies, and I thought 2 of the puppies were unsuitable for your family situation, you would only get to view 4 puppies.
For me, it’s not about you getting your fluff ball, it’s about me identifying the best possible home for my pups, and if I offend anyone in the process, tough!

I personally am not a fan of line breeding. Is the breeder of an older generation?

Another point, I don’t breed dogs to whelp in the Autumn as it means the new owners are toilet training in the winter. If your trying to get your dog to pee/poo outside and its cold, wet and miserable, it does not a particularly positive experience for anyone.

That fact that you are doing your homework would fill me with confidence that you are going to be a fabulous owner and I hope you find your puppy soon. Good luck!

And before anyone comments on my user name, I follow stringent health guidelines, it’s just the day I changed my username the dog was sick, on my new rug I might add

I understand that because of puppy thefts a lot of breeders are nervous. Before all this someone I knew bought a puppy,met the owner in a layby FFS, the dog is obviously not the breed it was meant to be. We have a border collie puppy,one next month (also tried hundreds of rescues,took many serious behaviour issues) we met our pup at 2 weeks old, regular video calls. She was obviously with mum,met dad. There was security cameras, locked gates,no problem.met all their dogs. We got her in September, this wasn't what was planned. Frankly, even with all the other issues. I would think long and hard about getting an autumn puppy, when you are going outside multiple times in the night for toileting.

I was thinking something similar.

Walk away. At best her house isn't fit for guests at worst it's either a con or a puppy mill.

And there are no puppies until Autumn? And they are inbred? Those poor puppies.

I'm sure there are lots of good breeders you can buy from or even rescue as there are lots of pedigrees in rescues now.

Someone I used to know thought she was buying from a breeder and ended up with a puppy mill puppy. Why she didn't insist to view the house and mother and check out references is beyond me.

In line breeding increases health risks and shortens life

cancer
heart disease
liver disease
thyroid disease
hip dysplasia
rheumatism
Alzheimer’s has been detected in dogs bred in line studies continue
behaviour issues there are discussions that dogs who suddenly turn on owners have had higher coefficient

KC registered is not the same as KC assured. You can contact kennel club to tell them of your concerns and they might do a check in with her/remove her from their list but for you specifically, I’d suggest you walk away. It’s just not worth it. Particularly if she uses herKC registration to charge higher than average fees.

always if in doubt, don’t proceed.