Breeder doesn’t allow visits… walk away?

[Hawknotdove]

Hello,

I’ve found a breeder locally with puppies available in the autumn. She seems legitimate in most respects - pictures of her showing dogs and winning Crufts all over FB, sent me vetting questionnaire, then video call and wants to do a home visit. Seems dog-obsessed and has sent me hand-written info sheets on diet, care etc. She comes across as someone who lives for her dogs - possibly to the point of being a bit obsessive.

However, she says she doesn’t allow visits to her own home. She says she will pick 1 or 2 pups (depending on size of litter) than she thinks are a good fit for our family and bring them to my house with the mother when they are old enough. Also, when I did a call to meet her and the dogs, they didn’t appear to be in her house (she says they live in the house but it looked like she’d taken them to a barn for the call).

Finally, she’s bred in line so they have an in-breeding coefficient that’s higher than the breed average.

Shes’s KC assured and the parents are fully health screened.

Honestly, it’s such a mine field!!!

Walk away?

I would appreciate advice. You’ve all been so helpful so far!

Are you set on a specific breed?

Our breeder was quite a distance from us so we didn't visit before collection (though my friend who got a littermate did) we did have 2 way video calls. A Facebook group with daily videos. Extra videos. She thoroughly voted us and wanted a video walk through of the house and garden yo check it was secure.

She socialised the pups. Went visiting a hospital to meet staff and patients. One of the new owners had a horse so she took the pups to visit horses. She played firework sounds to desensitise the. And as we were collecting late she also took our pup to a dogs trust puppy class to make sure he started training in the ideal range.

We are still in touch and share photos and I wouldn't have liked to get a dog any other way!

Walk away. Being KC registered is not full proof. I would always see the home , also the mention of the inbreeding coefficient being higher than average would send me huge red flags. I purchased a GSD with a supposedly great pedigree but I didn’t check the parentage - I just loved him. If I had sent the pedigree to the GSD Association prior to purchase - I would found out the issues and have thought twice. Breeder offered me money back and return my puppy - but by then , he was my baby!

I would definitely run for the hills. If it doesn't feel right, it normally isn't.
Go and look at some petrol rescue places. Re-home a neglected pet.

Good luck

Breeder I bought our late, lamented dog from, not only was happy for us to visit, but took him in when we went on holiday. I reciprocated by having the mum when he was away. He showed at Crufts. Care for his dogs was always paramount. Some breeders go above the call of duty.

Our recent puppy came from a breeder. He wasn't KC registered as pups grandma wasn't registered by her breeder and so he wasn't allowed to register. Came with all health check paperwork, family history, were allowed to visit at 3 weeks, saw all 6 puppies with mum, plus her mum (pups grandma) and another dog he had.
He had all the time in the world for us, would send videos and told us we were welcome to visit whenever (he was 100 miles away). Since we've had our pup, he's added us to a whatsapp group of ALL those that have brought previous puppies from him and still asks how they all are

If it doesn't feel right, don't buy, wait. The dog will be with you for 10-15 years and so best to buy from where you feel comfortable

This

I wouldn’t touch this with a barge pole

As almost everyone has said, walk away fast and report this woman to prevent heartache for other potential owners and, most importantly, those poor puppies to be. Please consider a beautiful rescue dog instead. We had a gorgeous Jack Russell who'd been dumped on the street and she was like the little sister our daughter couldn't have, then a huge source of comfort to us when she left for uni! We now have a rescue Beagle collie cross who's like the little boy we couldn't have!!

This sounds dodgy. We were KC registered breeders (hobby, small scale) and always vetted people then invited them round to see the bitch and pups and so we could check them out. The most worrying part is the line breeding. How high is the co-efficiency? You are running the risk of serious health issues Many breeders do line breeding to keep a certain “look” but it is frequently abused and if dogs were human it would be called incest 🤷🏼‍♀️

Hi I breed Maine Coons and always allow visits (kittens can be visited after they are five-six weeks old). Each visit takes a long time preparation wise, as I have to fog rooms with cat safe disinfectants and I also ask guests to follow a certain set of protocols to keep the kittens safe. I let visitors know what these are in advance so they don't feel on the spot removing shoes etc. I think any breeder not allowing visits are a bit suspect to be honest, either they cannot be bothered to put the effort in or they are just not legit. They cannot use the 'I am worried about germs' message if they are sanitising rooms properly and following precautions.

I breed boxers. This just seems extremely strange. I expect prospective owners to be checking me out as much I I am they. You need to see the mum in her home environment reacting with her pups. There’s certainly no way I would put one of my girls and their pups through a “trip out” to someone else’s home. Just no. And none of the other boxer breeders I know would do this either!!!!

My thought would be possibly security concerns for the first breeder. A local rottie (backyard) breeder had 2 stolen from her home, although they managed to get 1 back.

Yeah I would walk away.

My bitch is pregnant at the moment. The puppies are well bred and the co-efficiency is the breed standard. No way would I go above, I was offered several studs with higher, my aim was to get as low as possible.

I would definitely allow the new owners to visit pups in the home and meet my bitch. I want the very best homes for them. However I would complete several checks prior to them being invited.

With my boy dog I got him from very far away so it was decision not to visit before, also it was only 5 days between talking to breeder and collecting him. However I did have a FaceTime call with the breeder and saw him and siblings and his mum virtually before collecting.

I think anyone who won’t let you visit isn’t breeding them in the home, and that raises alarm bells to me.

Run.

I walked away from a breeder last year. Was happy to sell us a pup, that wasn't in the original picture with Mum and conveniently wasn't going to be in when we collected. A neighbour was going to hand over the puppy. I suspect the puppy wasn't from the original litter. My point being if your gut tells you something is off then go with it.
We went on the find a beautiful pup from a reputable and loving breeder (but not KC registered) his name is Roger and we adore him.

No. I have grave reservations about breeders who do not want the public to see their breeding facility. There is always a reason, and it is VERY rarely good.

The advice is always that you should be able to meet puppies/kittens in a home environment with the mother and hopefully, the sire. This sounds extraordinarily dodgy – very suspect.

Have you thought of a rescue dog? There’s loads of puppies and young dogs looking for a good home. We got a rescue retriever who is such a lovely boy.

I used to breed pedigree cats, and wouldn't sell my kittens to anyone who wasn't prepared to visit us at least 3 times during the 13 weeks the kittens had to stay with their mum, or who refused to allow me to visit their home at least once.
I have hoarded 'stuff' for over 30yrs (now in recovery and clearing my home), but I still had people come to visit my kittens. Yes, I was ashamed of my 'hoard', but the prospective buyers weren't coming to look at what 'stuff' I had in my home, they were coming to see my beautiful kittens, and they could see that they were well cared for and loved, regardless of what else I had in my home.
I know breeding dogs is a little different, not least the fact that most breeders want the pups gone between 7 & 9 weeks of age, but I would still expect the breeder to want prospective owners to come and visit at least once before they go to collect their new pup.

This sounds dodgy as! No reputable breeder would refuse a home visit to a potential buyer and any I've come across usually have something to hide. I'd steer clear but also speak to a vet for their opinion. Also consider asking RSPCA for advice as it may ring alarm bells enough with them to do an inspection...

I've breed labs and this sounds very off. Report and walk away. Good luck in finding your forever furry friend.

I have bought three kennel club registered dogs from two renowned breeders. Coefficient is low

parents dns and health screened (last one, I could also see grandparents etc on the kennel club website)

except for the first one, the breeder chose the dog for us, best suited by getting to know us.

we have thought each of our dogs the best dogs ever

so much of what the breeder is going us right BUT always, always visiting to meet the puppy at a few weeks old, seeing parents (even met the grandparents) AND had low coefficient.

the not visiting right away is a red flag. You don’t really then know if you’re getting the puppy as described.

i would not proceed.

Depends on your definition of autumn.
Dog could be pregnant now, due mid July, puppies would be ready in September. I’d call that autumn.

But I agree run! I wouldn’t be happy not seeing the whole litter - fine for her to say there are only a couple available when you’re there but her wanting to come to your home would be a massive red flag (what if you had another dog? Assuming the pups would yet to be vaccinated so would put their health at risk).

Dogs only ''Need'' to be KC registered if you plan to do Breed Showing with them - or something like Lure coursing, where it's needed to prove your dog is a purebred to compete fairly.

Eg, a Merle Whippet can't possibly be a Purebred, as the Merle gene doesn't appear in Purebred Whippets - Merle shows likely Collie input somewhere along the way.

Merle {and other recessive coat colours} has made a huge faddish surge in popularity with all sorts of dogs in those online ads showing the 'Mouldy wrap' {as someone called it } colouring.

The dogs themselves can suffer being bred specifically for this pattern.

Dogs only ''Need'' to be KC registered if you plan to do Breed Showing with them

Whilst this is, of course, strictly true it is also not the whole picture. KC registration is not perfect by any means (far from it!), but used in conjunction with good advice on how to buy it does give the best chance most buyers will have of:

1. Traceable, breed appropriate testing through DNA or other approved clinical methods (not 'health checking', which is virtually meaningless)
2. Ensuring that a bitch has not been bred from when she's too young or too old and that she has not had more litters than is reasonable.

Add in that buying from a show-focused breeder (or people they recommend who may have been approved to use their stud dogs) will give the greatest likelihood of a dog that has the temperament and the appearance of the dog the buyer chose.

Also, with working dogs, if you want to trial them.