Considering euthanising dog after bite

[Dogheartbreak]

I feel so sick with the weight of this on my mind.
5 years ago, we rescued a dog from a UK charity that brings dogs from abroad. I am an experienced dog owner and wanted to save this dog's life. I have had rescue dogs before.
This dog was/is very nervous and reactive. I have worked with a behaviourist and the vet to improve the dogs quality of life and the improvements have been vast. But he's still a nervous dog and be off lead or anything out and about. I was happy that he loved his life with me, he was well cared for and happy and I would provide a safe and control environment for him to live out his days, walking when it's quieter and using secure fields etc.
I was told when I was younger I couldn't have children. Fast forward to one year after having the dog and I was pregnant. I've since had 2 kids and every precaution and loads of training went into prepping the dog. All was fine and obviously dog and kids never alone or anything. Easier when they were babies as they'd always be in our arms or if on the playmat we would be right there and the dog wasn't interested and has never approached one of the kids. Now they are toddlers and this is becoming so much harder to manage. The dog is visibly anxious if kids are in the same room so we separate and he ends up being in another room alone for hours which is obviously awful. We teach the kids how to behave but obviously they are toddlers and unpredictable, youngest in particular just wants to get to the dog whenever he can see him.
The other day, he was running through the kitchen to go outside and my 1yo reached out from his highchair and grabbed fur on the dogs back. He turned and bit his arm. Thankfully no major damage but had teeth marks and it could have so much worse. I took baby to drs obviously. We are incredibly vigilant but I am now terrified of a gate being left open, or eventually kids being able to open the gate or whatever and something happening.
He's very scared and aggressive towards strangers and I feel that if we weren't so vigilant with gates and the muzzle that he would have bitten someone else by now and could do again.
Obviously controlling the environment to this extent with 2 toddlers around is so hard. With the kids we also have more visitors to the house etc which stress the dog. I can't have the dog on a lead in the house as my kids are always all over me so if we have visitors the dog goes in his dog house in the garden (outside office with sofa and heating etc. he seems happy in there but I don't like doing it for more than an hour).
I feel like I can't have him in the house now this has happened. The rescue offer back up but I've seen them publicly shame people on their Facebook page that have done this. I also think they'll re-home the dog without disclosing the bite history and I could never forgive myself if he bit someone else, or worse
Also the thought of him having to be put down in a strange place. Or if the biting would mean he'd end up in a kennel for the rest of his days.
Please be kind. What can do. I love him so much but can't risk my children.

I would PTS

I am in no way opposed to behavioural euthanasia for aggressive or dangerous dogs, but I think he deserves a chance to live.

This dog isn't irredeemable: he is a traumatised dog that gave a warning nip to a baby that unexpectedly hurt him. He didn't break skin, this is different from a bite intended to harm. He doesn't approach children. His behaviours are truly out of fear and reactivity rather than aggression or prey drive.

He can't be a part of your family any more, there's no question about that. But there's a chance he can be a manageable dog for somebody without children. I think before euthanasia you should try to find him a suitable home, with the acceptance that you may not be able to find one.

I hope you don't get shamed by people who know nothing about yours and your dog's situations. You have given half a decade of your time for him and made his world a safe space. There are people out there who think that pets should never, ever be given up (even if the animals would prefer it), likening it to abandoning a child, and some people who think that physically healthy animals should never, ever be put down, even if they are unmanageably dangerous and containing them will make them suffer.

There are support groups on Facebook for people who've had to behaviourally euthanise beloved pet dogs. They tend to feel a combination of grief and relief.
facebook page

There are degrees of bite seriousness. It sounds like the dog was startled and just grabbed at the thing which nipped his skin which turned out to be a toddler arm to have only left scratches. If he intended to harm rather than disarm this attacker from above he'd have used mouth with more pressure or gone in for another bite.

I'd see this type bite likely to be manageable in more suitable home as sounds like he's stressed with kids. Toddlers are especially hard on dogs as are very unpredictable with movements & sounds its very different behaviour to adult humans dogs get used to.

For me it would depend what the dogs other behavioural issues are whether it's in their best interests to even try to re-home via rescue or to euthanise while with people they love.
Get a vet check up if thinking of rehoming as animals are good at masking pain which can impact behaviour that like us can end up less tolerant and grumpy or grab may have been more painful for dog than appeared.

I do have rescue dog that was under socialised as a puppy and is frightened of kids and unknown dogs. He will growl when he's worried and his go to is to bark at anything he finds scary in hope if appears tough it won't come attack him.

I rehomed a dog after he bit my son in the face (not badly luckily), and made it extremely clear he was not kid safe. He went to an older guy who knew he couldn’t be around kids and that he could be aggressive. Last I heard his daughter had kids, and he’d allowed the dog to be around them. I was livid, but it wasn’t my business anymore.
i would not take the risk. The dog is better off pts than rehomed somewhere, when you don’t know where he’s going and if he’ll be safe/happy.

Exactly this.

If he had grabbed another toddler's hair, I expect that toddler to grab him back. Would you euthanise the other toddler or call the Police. No of course not. It's life's lessons. This isn't a vicious dog, this is a dog who was startled and hurt with no other way to express it.

I grew up with dogs, chickens, pigs and goats. From a very young age the goats would butt me and sometimes knock me flying. I was told it was my own fault for getting too close.

I actually named a rescue, and was totally ignored.

The bite is the end of a very long story. The OP mashed it clear that the dog is aggressive and doesn't like visitors. It is muzzled and restrained and has to be separated from people. It's just a matter of time before it bites again. It's too reactive. Yes this time it was a toddler grabbing fur but with everything the O has detailed it's not a safe dog. It's been 5 years and it's still reactive, aggressive and scared.

Keeping an anxious dog isolated isn't training it, you should've been doing the opposite and socialising the dog on a very regular basis! My daughter knew from the moment she started crawling that she only stroked the dog with me - so once she was toddling she knew not to grab (and hurt) the dog.

The dog snapping is a normal/instinctive response to being hurt or being scared. So no, you absolutely shouldn't end its life on that basis! 😳

Contact local rescues and be honest, explain you haven't had the inclination time to train the dog properly, and he bit because he had been hurt. And don't ever get another dog.

Can you rehome him yourself? He’s your dog- you don’t have to go back to the charity who you adopted him from; they might prefer this but you are experienced and sensible. Very hard choice. Best of luck xx

I think you'll find that the OP is looking for validation to have the dog put to sleep. Now that she has her "real" babies the dog has outlived it's purpose and is an inconvenience. She won't go back to the original rescue centre because they might shame her on FB of all things.

I've seen this time and again with animals treated like surrogate babies until the human ones arrive and then they become nothing but a bloody nuisance. Quite frankly it makes me sick.

I wish they would stop these dog adoption schemes from overseas.

I concur. It's not like there's a shortage of dogs here. If a would-be adopter is turned down by a British dogs' charity, there's a reason and that reason isn't going to disappear because a street dog importer is less picky about who they give a dog to.

Not the dogs fault as its fur was pulled and it reacted.

I was brought up to understand that if the cat bit or scratched me, it was my fault because I had done something to upset the cat. A cat can't so easily kill a small child though.

Yes it does. She says she has to muzzle him when she has visitors and to explain to them not to have any eye contact with the dog or to pat him etc. She says shw has to have him on a lead in the house with new visitors. And this is is all after five years and professional training.

Really hate how many people are saying straight to PTS. I’m not against it in general if the situation calls for it but given the context this wasn’t an unprovoked attack (not your child’s fault but as most of us know toddlers can have an intense grip so that on an already nervy dog is going to lead to a bite- the fact there was no skin torn means it was a nip meant to warn). I think you’d be doing him a massive disservice if you don’t even look at alternatives in the form of rescues or child free homes.

100% I think you need to rehome him- one for the obvious risk to your children but also because he’s just not thriving in your household with children. It sucks and there’s nothing you can do about it because some dogs just don’t like children (which is totally fine and shouldn’t be as much of an x over a dogs head as some people here seem to believe- kids are loud and unpredictable- and some dogs just don’t like that). Chances are being in this environment is probably making his disposition worse in general (if you had your biggest fear living in the same house as you it would of course affect how you feel in your day-to-day).

I wouldn’t mind the rescue criticising you- it’s horrible practise and honestly I can’t stand when rescues do it- but for the sake of
the dog suck it up. The concern is more around if you do generally think they’ll rehome without declaring the bite history- I’m not personally sure how you’d address this but if it is something you are seriously concerned about then approach other rescues. Yeah some will have to say no due to their own policies and it is just unfortunate timing because rescues are really full at the moment but give at least a few a try- they might have space, someone already waiting on a dog that matches his description or may be able to provide alternative provisions (one rescue I’ve spent some time with keep some dogs in human-free environments where they happily live their life’s out just with very little human contact- albeit they do only have very limited space for this so can only have a few dogs at a time live this way). Final option is to private rehome- means you have more control over where he goes but more liability should anything go wrong. A lot
more risky in my opinion but means you can be very clear on the bite history all.

I know this is a horrible situation to be in OP and I don’t envy you- sometimes things just don’t turn out how we’d like them. Oh and just in response to your question on if there are actually people that don’t ever have visiting children- 100%- we don’t, we’re young so sure we have friends with kids who we occasionally see but out of choice (nothing to do with dogs) we don’t want them round our house so don’t invite them round (we’d opt to go round theirs or meet out) but also means our dogs don’t have to be around children.

@OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon I'm so sorry, I'm not ignoring you I just wasn't expecting so many responses and I'm struggling to read/reply to them all with my little ones here. I'll go back and find it

My friend lives in an estate with a woman who takes rescue dogs from abroad. She currently has one that has bitten people on the estate and can’t control it and no one knows why the fuck the police haven’t removed it, as she always gives the same sob story so people don’t report of how she’s trying to train him etc. Then lets him lose outside the play park and she can’t hold the lead!

i would try and rehome to someone with no kids, but you’ve given him 5 years of love but he sounds like he’s not going to change and your life isn’t compatible now at all, you can’t live like that keeping toddlers and dog separate, you know something will go wrong one day whilst you spend 30seconds peeing etc

I'm so sorry for you OP, you sound like a lovely person. Unfortunately I've been in the same situation and chose to PTS. Ddog would have hated it in kennels and I was also very worried about potential new owners not being given the full history. She was a lovely dog and had come on so much over the years since we rescued her, but she couldn't ever fully lose that nervousness. It was such a heartbreaking decision, but I still feel it was the right thing to do for a dog with her background.

@ginasevern oh come on. I've had several rescues up to the point I had this one.
Regarding the original rescue, they wrote paragraphs of awful stuff about the owners, swearing and telling people to share their faces on social media. The owners commented to explain the dog has bitten their 10 year old in unprovoked attack. The admitted they shouldn't have got a rescue with a child and were deeply apologetic but didn't want their son terrified of the dog.
The contract says they completely support people who need to give dogs back in extreme circumstances and would rather people did that than for the people or dog to be unhappy. I felt this this Facebook post didn't support that at all.

This is an extremely unfair post. OP has trained the dog and spent a lot of time and money on it including taking advice from a behavioural expert.

FFS you're not a responsible dog owner. Your child grabbed him and he reacted so your logic is to kill the dog.

Do the decent thing and try to rehome the dog instead of killing him.

I do have concerns about these homes with no kids. Do they seriously never ever have children over or other visitors?

@Dogheartbreak, my dh and I are a middle-aged couple with no kids. All of our friends' kids are adults now, and we have literally never had small children in our current home (been here 7 years now!). Which is perfect for our rescue dog, who's not aggressive but is a little on the nervous side. If a toddler unexpectedly pulled his fur, he might nip as well. But he never interacts with children and it's just not an issue. He has a quiet life with us and thrives on it, with lots of long walks in the woods and snoozes on the sofa. These homes do exist.

I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but it sounds like your dog's bite would rate a 2 on the Dunbar bite scale: ian-dunbar-dog-bite-scale.pdf (apdt.com). It was a restrained bite and basically just a warning, though I completely appreciate your fears and that you don't feel you can keep the dog any longer. I'd feel exactly the same way; your dc's safety is paramount. But from what you've said, your dog sounds like it could be fine in the right home. Not every dog does well with kids, particularly toddlers.

Best of luck to you, OP, my heart breaks for you.

I think you need to try and get him rehomed.
I have been in a somewhat similar position. I had to give my dog up a few days ago.

It's been a very painful process, but I knew that if I kept him, I was risking both his, and potentially my children's lives.

When he went back they told me that he would be rehomed where there were no children in the house, and no visiting children. They have his history from before we got him, and from whilst we have had him.
He will also have his behaviourist follow him so they can help him settle, and maybe even advise on where is best for him to be rehomed.

Please consider a breed specific rescue for your dog instead of PTS

I really don’t think mumsnet is the right place to ask this question.

people are very quick to say put to sleep, which is a drastic step to take (& I have to say - not fair on the dog given it’s basically for your convenience. I say this with TOTAL sympathy as I am actually in the exact same position as you sadly). The dog gave a warning - unacceptable to use teeth, but obviously a warning/reaction rather than random aggression.

investigate charities. Please feel free to PM me

Which charity did you use ?@Jumpingpogosticks

The other thing is your baby won't be a baby for long and things will probably be very different when the baby stops randomly grabbing things.

Honestly I think I'd try to hang in there.

I'm with the other poster upthread though having grown up round dogs and learnt the hard way not to jump on them/pull their hair/startle them/wake them up.

What a thoroughly repugnant comment.

OP clearly loves this dog. Until you have had a dog that HAS bitten you cannot begin to know the agony that an owner goes through. OP is doing her best and comments like this are completely unnecessary