Considering euthanising dog after bite

[Dogheartbreak]

I feel so sick with the weight of this on my mind.
5 years ago, we rescued a dog from a UK charity that brings dogs from abroad. I am an experienced dog owner and wanted to save this dog's life. I have had rescue dogs before.
This dog was/is very nervous and reactive. I have worked with a behaviourist and the vet to improve the dogs quality of life and the improvements have been vast. But he's still a nervous dog and be off lead or anything out and about. I was happy that he loved his life with me, he was well cared for and happy and I would provide a safe and control environment for him to live out his days, walking when it's quieter and using secure fields etc.
I was told when I was younger I couldn't have children. Fast forward to one year after having the dog and I was pregnant. I've since had 2 kids and every precaution and loads of training went into prepping the dog. All was fine and obviously dog and kids never alone or anything. Easier when they were babies as they'd always be in our arms or if on the playmat we would be right there and the dog wasn't interested and has never approached one of the kids. Now they are toddlers and this is becoming so much harder to manage. The dog is visibly anxious if kids are in the same room so we separate and he ends up being in another room alone for hours which is obviously awful. We teach the kids how to behave but obviously they are toddlers and unpredictable, youngest in particular just wants to get to the dog whenever he can see him.
The other day, he was running through the kitchen to go outside and my 1yo reached out from his highchair and grabbed fur on the dogs back. He turned and bit his arm. Thankfully no major damage but had teeth marks and it could have so much worse. I took baby to drs obviously. We are incredibly vigilant but I am now terrified of a gate being left open, or eventually kids being able to open the gate or whatever and something happening.
He's very scared and aggressive towards strangers and I feel that if we weren't so vigilant with gates and the muzzle that he would have bitten someone else by now and could do again.
Obviously controlling the environment to this extent with 2 toddlers around is so hard. With the kids we also have more visitors to the house etc which stress the dog. I can't have the dog on a lead in the house as my kids are always all over me so if we have visitors the dog goes in his dog house in the garden (outside office with sofa and heating etc. he seems happy in there but I don't like doing it for more than an hour).
I feel like I can't have him in the house now this has happened. The rescue offer back up but I've seen them publicly shame people on their Facebook page that have done this. I also think they'll re-home the dog without disclosing the bite history and I could never forgive myself if he bit someone else, or worse
Also the thought of him having to be put down in a strange place. Or if the biting would mean he'd end up in a kennel for the rest of his days.
Please be kind. What can do. I love him so much but can't risk my children.

Agree completely with the second poster. OP's children are her real babies. A dog is a dog. Dogs, oddly enough, fare better when they are treated as dogs, by people who know how to treat them, rather than those who anthropomorphise them as 'fur babies' and end up creating attachment anxiety on both their own part and that of the animal.

For most sensible people, when the safety and wellbeing of a dog is weighed up against the safety and wellbeing of a human, the human takes precedence.

The more vociferous posters only seem able to see the fact that his fur was pulled and he reacted. The bigger picture is that of a stressed, anxious and unhappy dog; one that every conceivable effort and work with behaviourists has been invested so as to give him a secure and comfortable existence. This is not an irresponsible owner acting on a whim and viewing animals' lives as cheap. Her anxiety has just as much to do with what's best for the dog.

OP, there's nothing more to add to the many, many posts offering advice on this thread, other to say I'm sorry. I too have had beloved animals euthanized: horses and cats. Whatever the reasons this has to be done, it is never other than heartbreaking. Nor is a decision those who love their animals - and you clearly do - ever take lightly. Kind thoughts coming your way whatever your final decision

NB. the 'Facebook shaming' rescue centre sound thoroughly irresponsible. IMO, there should be far more stringent vetting and stricter conditions imposed on those allowed to have responsibility for animals. This is disgraceful, unprofessional behaviour.

@m00rfarm Thanks for singling me out, and I have read the full post.

Having had a dog with the same problems as OP for 13 years I knew how to manage him and gave him a good life. Luckily I never had kids or had them visit my house. I'm lucky to live in a pretty secluded area with big fields so it worked well for us.
Had he ever managed to bite anyone then that would have been down to me so I wouldn't have ended his life.
Losing your temper at people advising to rehome the dog suggests what you'd do but there's no need to lose it on someone else's behalf over a different opinion than yours. I speak from lots of experience as do a lot of other pp, and I'm not stupid.
OP is quite obviously a lovely person and looking to do the right thing.

I have contacted several local rescues today who have said he would live in kennels until they can find a foster. One has said they would assess him for considering of adoption, the other said he would be placed with an experienced foster and if that didn't work out could live at the rescue indefinitely in kennels though they do socialise the dogs.
A bigger one with a no kennels policy has auto replied to say it will take several days for them to see the email. I tried phoning but they said they only take requests via email.

@Dogheartbreak - please don't put him into rescue.

With his behaviour and history he'll be passed around and eventually someone will to the kind thing of PTS.

I know it's hard, but I think keeping him alive and placing him with strangers is beyond cruel, it will just add to his trauma. You have given him a safe and secure home that reduced his anxiety over the last few years. I think you owe him that much.

@DancefloorAcrobatics I don't want to, and calling them has confirmed I don't want that for him. I just felt that I should try to find out.
What do you think of the dogs 4 rescue idea? Website makes it look like the dogs do really well. How amazing it would be for him to finally be able to be off lead all the time and socialising.

It was not my intention to single any specific person - it is the general belief from some quarters that there is a mythical couple who are just waiting for a dog like this. Dogs are (or should be) happy creatures. They love their owner, they love life, and they should look forward to each day. Clearly this is not always possible, and for a dog that has already had 5 years of training to assist him in being able to live his life to the full, to now have bitten a small child, really, how is his life EVER going to be any better than it is now. I can only see how it can become immeasurably worse - even if only for a short period of time - which will more than likely set him back many years in terms of his current recovery.

I do feel really strongly that with animals it should NEVER be life at any cost. It should be quality of life that drives the difficult decision that his owner has to make. The shelter route (to me) is the easy option. Just pass him on and job done. But as a responsible owner in this situation, I could never do this.

I'd make dogs 4 rescue my priority (given his background - ie that came from overseas, and wouldn't cope in kennels).

Rescue 4 dogs looks great op. Have you spoke to them?

@Helplessandheartbroke I called them and they said they only take requests via email. So I've emailed and had an auto reply to say they inundated with hundreds of emails and that it may take quite a while to hear back. Fingers crossed.

With thousands of dogs being given up at the moment, any dog would be lucky to get a place there- They are probably inundated, and very likely just have a small group of sponsored dogs by looking at their website.

Realistically no one will be taking on a dog with a bite history and as tricky to be around as your dog is -

He is likely to be passed from pillar to post - he bites a Foster's dog, he'll likely be out on his ear or euthanised anyway by a stranger.

No one on here who is campaigning for you to seek a rescue is offering to take him on...I wonder why.

Dogs with deep issues are two a penny especially since they started shipping them over from overseas.

Sadly it's a money maker for many importers - and the Facebook shaming I have seen with some of these groups.

{An unsuitable dog is returned, and it's all '🤬'emojis and

''It's OK Mia, WE still love you''}

A life in a kennel is no life at all. It's basically like being in a jail cell with maybe a 45 minute walk a day if enough volunteers turn up- it's also very noisy.

It would be kinder if the 'Four paws' 'pack' place can't take him on to PTS by your vet- Especially if she suggested this in the past.

Get the vet to come to your house.

@m00rfarm I do agree with what you're saying. Quality of life has to be priority but only the OP will know what his quality of life is, and maybe how much it'll affect him being rehomed. Maybe the bite was always going to happen given his temperament and he's easily triggered.
I'd never casually suggest rehoming its dangerous and I know it's hard to place an animal with suitable owners when they have problems, especially aggression but if those triggers aren't there then it's doable. There are other avenues to explore, and I think if you're struggling with the idea of euthanasia then it's good to know the other options.

I have personal experience of Dogs4rescue, they are phenomenal. So many dogs that would struggle with home life live happily in packs there with so much freedom and they are so loved. It may take time for them to get back to you but please give them a chance. If they can help they absolutely will.

@TangoParadise thanks so much - that fills me with hope. Hopefully as he is an ex-street dog they will see how he could fit in there. Obviously we'd want to pay for his lifetime care and would do everything we could to support them.
I'm watching the YouTube videos and am in awe of what they've done there.

I'd be concerned were anyone on here (knee jerk) offering to take him.

There are though several PP's commenting who've rescued dogs (in a responsible/considered way). I've had two rescues, the first of whom was elderly and reactive. He was an amazing dog, who beyond having to be muzzled at the vet and groomer, was very happy. And he brought an immeasurable amount of joy to our family. The second rescue was little more than a pup, very badly behaved to begin with, but came on leaps and bounds with training.

In spite of all your if and buts, and pessimistic worst case scenarios @oakleaffy, there is a very good chance that the OP's dog will be rescued and will bring his new family the type of immeasurable joy that people like myself, and other PP's, have been lucky enough to experience with our rescue dogs.

I don't have anything to add to this debate really other than I really feel for you OP. We rescued a dog from an overseas charity, he'd been in UK foster for some time and was well socialised. He was very big and although he was born in kennels, he was from generations of street dogs. He took an instant dislike to my youngest DC (who was 10 at the time). I had to watch them both like hawks constantly, I had to always know where both of them were at all times and supervise interactions ready to intervene. I was scared to even take a shower knowing I'd left DH or adult DC in charge. DS was brilliant, he's dog savvy and never approached him. Sometimes the dog would go up to DS for affection, other times he would see him in another room and explode with barking and lunging. The rescue took him back into foster after 2 weeks, they knew that the landscape would be very different for him if he'd bitten DS and it was heading that way. After he left I realised it was one of the most stressful periods I'd ever had, and it was only 2 weeks. You're faced with a difficult decision on the backdrop of extreme stress, I will say that you know the dog better than anyone else, given you'd had him for 5 years.

“In spite of all your if and buts, and pessimistic worst case scenarios @oakleaffy, there is a very good chance that the OP's dog will be rescued and will bring his new family the type of immeasurable joy that people like myself, and other PP's, have been lucky enough to experience with our rescue dogs.”

There are plenty of lovely rescue dogs ( owned them myself) but they are sweet natured with people and good with other dogs ( as Lurchers and Greyhounds so often are) despite being cruelty cases.

A snappy poorly socialised dog from overseas who is bad with visiting people is going to be hard to home, especially as it doesn’t like other dogs.
Rescues are filled to bursting at the moment.

They do look good. Weather your dog is a right fit for them is the big question. Especially as they said, they are currently inundated. They have a choice.
The question is, how long you are able to continue with the current situation.

Only you can decide what happens to your dog.

What on earth makes you think this poor dog has a ‘very good chance’ of a lovely new life.
Those of us in rescue have tried to explain that rescues are inundated especially now so many are dumping dogs they bought in lockdown.
Unless OP actually knows such a paragon like home the chances are slim - though not impossible.
Also a lot of rescues are so particular that dogs can end up for literally years in kennels.
I’d rather PTS in my own home rather than put my dog through the stress of all that.

OP I don’t know how I ended up on this thread but just wanted to say I have a monthly direct debit to Dogs 4 Rescue and think they are an amazing place which could be a good fit for your fella. I’m a cat owner/person myself but randomly came across them on Twitter via Marc Riley the DJ and was blown away by the excellent work they do with their “pack”. Wishing you well ❤️

@Dogheartbreak our neighbour had to rehome her Romanian rescue after a really difficult 4 years. She realised he just wasn't suited to living in a home and much preferred the company of other dogs to humans. She was heartbroken as I'm sure you relate with.
He did have a bite history, and was taken in by Dogs 4 Rescue. Our neighbour sponsors her dog. And we've set up a monthly subscription to donate as I think they do great work!
She gets updates on her dog and he's come on in leaps and bounds. I've seen him a few times on their social media, he seems to enjoy being with the dogs but not too fond of humans. But the rescue respect that, and he's doing great.
Even if they can't take him in, they may know of somewhere who have capacity.
I definitely think if you suggest sponsoring him in order to make contributions to his food and medical care monthly, that might help you feel more connected to him? I'm sure the non-profit would appreciate the help too!
I think there are more avenues to be explored other than having the dog euthanised.
I really, really hope Dogs 4 Rescue get back in touch with you.

Usually I’d agree PTS but your child hurt your dog and the dog responded by ‘biting’ but this didn’t cause any injury/ broken skin? Can’t you cut down on visitors so that your dog is less stressed? Once you’ve given him a good walk surely he wants to sleep and could do so in another room or the kennel? Then he can be out when the children are napping and gone to bed etc.

Did you read OP's updates before posting?.......

But you’re making a lot of assumptions there. OP has even said the dog walks well on a heel, plays nicely with known dogs and knows to go to its bed when someone’s at the door. Not everyone has the same requirements for what they want in a dog (this would be fine for me if we were looking to take another dog on). Yeah obviously a dog with problems but not the uncontrolled, untrained monster you’re making it out to be. In reality I just see a nervous dog who would benefit from a quieter (child-free home) or a shelter that can allow for freedom with limited human contact. Yeah not the easiest ask in the world so I’m not saying rule out PTS altogether but I just don’t understand why some people are so quick to jump to that as the first option (and yes I work with rescues and am well aware of the current situation).

Not the OPs fault but it sounds like in half of the five years she’s had the dog it’s been in a household with at least one baby. Babies/ toddlers are by nature just stressful so for an already anxious dog this just isn’t an ideal environment and this has probably had an impact of the dogs behaviour during this time so also not as straight forward as saying this is a dog that has everything poured into it for five years, how is it going to get any better. My point is just that I’ve seen plenty of dogs moved into a more suited environment and thrive, again may not be possible here but that’s not for us to judge given all we can see is a very limited picture of this dog.

Ultimately OP you are the only one that knows the dog’s true behaviour and can make a proper assessment as to how you think the dog would do if rehomed. I know you’re already checking out Dogs 4 Rescue. Not sure about their acceptance criteria but Rushton dog rescue also keep/ do a lot of work with dogs that struggle with normal domestic life’s so may be one to look into as well.

@BungleandGeorge

there would be no way I would cut down on visitors for the sake of a dog. I like seeing my friends and family and being social at home.