Dog breeders - what to look out for

[tiredofthisshit21]

Going to see a large family run breeder next weekend, has been recommended to us by a friend. We're looking to get a Cavachon puppy. First time dog owners and a bit clueless. Thought I'd ask you experts on here what we should be looking out for? We've been thinking about this for months and it's not a snap decision. Fully aware of the commitment etc. But any advice would be appreciated.

@PotatoPie888

Puppy farmers are selling puppies out of air bnbs, pretending that they are ‘loving homes.’

i'm sure they are. And I think most of us on here would run a mile from such a farm.

But there are surely lots of puppies who are born in genuine loving homes, whose parents don't necessarily have the correct pedigree paperwork.

Admittedly puppy farms might be very good at looking like they are the latter category these days. But that doesn't mean that the latter category doesn't exist.

I have a cavachon X JRT;we ended up with him because his mama was got at by a local straying JRT anyway the owners didn't want the resulting pups and they were given to a rescue.He is the funniest looking little thing but friendly as hell with a sweet nature.

Best option;contact the kennel club for a reputable breeder.

Kennel Club only deal in pure breeds though - that's the problem!

@Frazzled2207 I wouldn’t take the risk buying from a family because there is a good chance it could be a front for a puppy farm. If you saw the misery of the dogs they breed from, you probably wouldn’t take the risk either.

@tiredofthisshit21

Kennel Club only deal in pure breeds though - that's the problem!

Indeed. I think the broader point is that if we are going down the mongrel route it definitely can be dodgy, can be fine, but can be difficult to tell which it is.

But going back to your original post, I wouldn't necessarily discount the breeder just on the fact that they have several dogs. I would be wary though.

It’s not about “show quality”. It’s about being bred from healthy and health tested parents, by people who know what they’re doing and care about the breed.
KC is not a mark of quality. Don’t think they police welfare and avoid registering puppy farmed puppies. They don’t.

So what should i be looking for @Wolfiefan? Genuinely, I don't know. You just said that KC is not a guarantee. So what is?

It's a minefield op.I got my puppy from a breeder who did all the health checks/microchip/1st injections before I took the pup they gave me the paperwork confirming it with microchip number etc.
It was a family home and I saw the mum they had used a stud who I didn't see.
Everything seemed above board and my dog is healthy and thriving.Its so hard to decide who to buy from if you don't use a rescue.

I would absolutely discount a breeder thar breeds multiple breeds. That's a puppy farm.

I live in the country. We have had sacks of sick puppies dumped and numerous breeding bitches.

It's a grim trade.

And no KC registered isn't a guarantee but a decent breeder will be looking to improve the health of the breed (my dog's sire was an import to avoid inbreeding).

Get to know the breed, get to know breeders.

Start with the breed club. Check what health tests are needed. See results. Eyes? Hips? How many bitches do they have? Where do they live? Why are they having a litter? Why from this bitch? Expect to be grilled.

A good breeder may have spent over a year finding the perfect stud for their bitch, preparing for the breeding, then for the litter, then building a relationship with the people in line for a puppy. Breeders like this are, sadly, not common.

Quick buck breeders are more common.

The most important things are:
Health TESTS (not just a health check at the vet) - these won’t happen with accidental litters or people who just want instant puppies. A puppy from untested parents is the one likely to die young from horrible inherited diseases.
Also a breeder that wants to get to know you, wants you to visit multiple times and is proud to show you mum and pups, and it’s not a stooge mum, mum is interacting with her pups.

Don’t be yet another tabloid headline “I bought a puppy and it died 3 days later from parvo” because they went to crappy puppy farmer who didn’t do any health checks, no vaccinations or vet checks and has now blocked their number. I’ve read these stories multiple times over the last year or so.

Thanks for all of the help, I appreciate it.

How do we feel about Pets4Homes and going with gut feel when you meet the breeder?

Go to Discover Dogs and see lots of breeds for real.

Maltese terriers are absolutely tiny. I’d worry about stepping on one in a busy household. Havanese are a touch bigger but hard to find (and the one we know is a grumpy little charmer).

Pets4Homes is not a website reputable breeders would use. And most people end up bringing a puppy home when they meet it. Because they “fall in love” or “can’t leave it there”
Don’t.
Either rescue or search for a reputable breeder.

I definitely don't want a rescue. I feel like you don't know what kind of issues you're inheriting. So that doesn't leave many options.

Rescues have puppies too.
It does leave options. But they will take time and work to find. There are decent breeders out there but they aren’t churning out crossbreeds and advertising online. It just depends how you feel about animal welfare.
Plus my older dog came from a good breeder but still had “issues”. A rescue in a foster is a much more known entity.

No to pets for homes.
I’d have a look at champdogs personally.

@tiredofthisshit21 Rescues have loads of puppies. They just don’t advertise them. If you think Pets4homes is not full of puppy farm puppies, you are wrong.

Our last puppy, a working labrador, did not come from a known kennel so to speak. We found him this way: looked up many different gundog kennels websites until we found perhaps 10 or so that seemed to match with our ideas. For us this was good, successful working dogs that lived in the family home and did other activities than working, medium sized, much emphasis on temperament, not many litters, low inbreeding and health test results of all dogs and bitches freely advertised and checkable online.

We then checked the breeding plans listed on the websites and Facebook pages of those kennels and contacted perhaps 6 or 7 of them. Some were not interested in us as they were looking for high level competition homes, some had no plans to breed or massive waiting lists etc.

One of the kennels however mentioned that a bitch they had sold as a puppy had been very successful at gundog trials and the owner was planning to breed her to continue the bloodline for herself. We got in touch with her and did the same checks on health etc, were interrogated by the owner and joined her puppy list.

So, actually, even if you don't want a particularly high end show dog, contacting breeders you are interested in can be a good starting point. This is not so likely to work with the minefield of cross bred dog for the many reasons previous posters have outlined. I don't think I'd even try to find a good breeder ( and by good I mean fully responsible, not kennel club) of a popular cross these days.

@tiredofthisshit21

Thank you.. I have been researching the breeder and I do have a few concerns as they have multiple breeds for sale. Maybe need to think again. Was only considering them as daughter's friend got her pup from them.

Multiple breeds = puppy farm , don't touch with a barge pole. Every single person who buys a pup from cruddy ,puppy farm breeding situations is adding to the problem . However hard it is to do if a pup looks ill ,unhealthy walk away . In my job i see the consequence of these situations and until people stop buying these poor little souls puppy farming will never end.

@tsmainsqueeze am definitely not using the puppy farm place now that I know what it is.

I dont believe that families who decide to breed their pets are a half way house - there's no good reason to breed a family pet.

@tiredofthisshit21, if I was looking for a mongrel or cross-bred puppy, I'd look for a local family. If I lived rurally, I'd be enquiring about lurchers or cross-bred gundogs or non-KC terriers. As for health checks, if there was a known recessive illness that affected both breeds, I'd want to know the puppies wouldn't be affected. For example, both cockers and springers (and many other breeds, including labs, which are another common springer cross) carry PRA, two copies of which cause a dog to go blind, so I wouldn't buy a sprocker puppy unless I knew that at least one parent wasn't a carrier. I'd be a lot less concerned if the springer was being crossed with a breed where PRA was rare or unknown. I'd prefer parent dogs of most breeds to be hip scored, but again, if I knew that the dam was six and had been out beating every weekend during the previous shooting season and stayed sound, and the sire was 10 and happily going on 5 mile jogs every day after a long career in canicross, I'd reckon that both parents had decent hips.

Ask around. Is there an agility club near you who could advise? Or a vet or dog trainer who could point you towards a client whose bitch is in whelp?

Good luck in your search.

The trouble with pet homes they don’t often know enough to do the right health tests and deal safely with birth problems, support new puppy owners and take back the puppy if there is an issue down the line.

@Auntieobem

I dont believe that families who decide to breed their pets are a half way house - there's no good reason to breed a family pet.

I'd respectfully disagree.

People breeding their family pet of good health and temperament as a one-off help to keep the gene pool wider in a breed than would otherwise be the case (because they won't be as obsessively focused on looks as most show breeders), and if they health test, think seriously about the sire and so on, I just don't see a problem.

There's less reason to crossbreed the family pet, but if I was in the market for a small crossbred, I'd much rather buy one from someone who has health tested and is breeding the family cocker to a poodle round the corner (also tested as necessary) than a puppy farm. The problem is working out who is the genuine person and not a puppy farm front. If it's someone you've seen out walking said cocker, who is lovely and friendly and confident, and they're happy for you to check them out with the local vet, you can be pretty sure the puppy is getting a decent start. However, litters like this are very unusual.