I’ve had enough

[Hotchocolatewithcream]

I’m a regular poster but name changed.

I’m not sure what I am hoping to gain from this thread, just an outlet to talk/vent I suppose as I don’t really see a solution to the problem.

I feel that I have reached the end of the line with my dog, my patience has largely gone and I feel she would do much better with someone else.

I have said to DH today that I think I should contact some rescues and try to have her rehomed but he isn’t at all keen and thinks it’s a heat of the moment thing and I’ll feel differently later.
I’m not so sure.

In short, she is aggressive around other dogs.
It started roughly when she hit maturity, she’d had a number of negative experiences prior with other dogs but it was one particularly traumatic experience with other dogs that seemed to really trigger it and she was never the same with other dogs since.

I’ve always thought her behaviour was a direct response to her experiences and not genetic but I'm no longer so sure.
I did see her mother who was really lovely but I didn’t see what she was like around other dogs.

After the traumatic incident she started off growling when other dogs were nearby and if at the vet she would lunge at them aswell but that was the only place she’d lunge.
Any other time she’d just growl at them but only if they came close, otherwise she’d largely just ignore them.

From there it escalated, she started tensing up and giving out aggressive signals - direct stares, vertical tail etc as soon as she spotted another dog in the distance on lead.

Sometimes she’d greet another dog fine, other times she growl or lip curl and other owners kept assuring me it was fine, she was just setting boundaries, they needed telling off etc so I didn’t take much action believing it to be normal.

Eventually it became clear she had issue with pretty much all dogs for no easily identifiable reason and I sought help.

She got worse.

Eventually I gave up trying and kept her 100% leashed and well, well away from other dogs.

She got better in that she no longer reacted to the sight of others, she was non reactive around them but would growl at them if they tried to approach her so I started letting her off lead again and would recall her if other dogs were approaching her (she would never approach them)

Not ideal but I accepted some dogs just don’t really like others, she wasnt actively going after them or hurting them or anything so I didn’t consider her dangerous and it was easily manageable.

Recently I started giving her a supplement for anxious dogs and it had a miraculous effect.
Suddenly she was actively choosing to go and say hello to other dogs, choosing to walk with them with or without interaction.
Completely her decision with no influence from me, I would go to walk away from them and she would trot off to go join the dogs and I’d have to change direction and follow her.

I started to relax and actually enjoy my walks and she has been bouncier and more ‘carefree’ than normal.

Yesterday she had a great time.
We were out for hours, she made friends with a big, bouncy dog and greeted loads of others really nicely and walked very happily with them all.

Today.
We’d had a really lovely, long walk, she’d greeted a few dogs perfectly nicely and we came across a small group of fairly large but very calm dogs.

She went to approach them but then seemed to slow down and go a bit tense.
I recalled her and the other owner started telling me it was fine, her dogs were fine etc.
Mine then walked over and two of the other dogs came over to sniff her, she suddenly went for them.
I don’t mean a little growl or a lip curl I mean full on lunge forward snarling and snapping at their faces.
I don’t know if she made contact but it was incredibly loud and frantic and aggressive sounding, one of the other dogs yelped and she raced forward a few paces chasing the dog.

The owner couldn’t have been nicer, I was very upset and apologetic.
The dogs she’d gone for seemed utterly unconcerned about what had just happened but her behaviour has really shaken me.

I no longer feel it would be safe to have her off leash anymore as I don’t feel I can trust her anymore not to properly go for or hurt another dog.

I know she’ll be really upset as she hates being on lead, she lives for racing for miles, jumping over hedges, picking up branches and any old random junk and trotting around carrying them proudly.
She won’t be able to do any of that and I feel really guilty.

But I don’t feel I have any other option.

I feel like I’ve failed her and she needs a much more knowledgeable home with a more experienced owner.

Have you sought professional help? My first step would be a behaviourist over rehoming. It should be included in your insurance and your vet will be able to recommend someone in your area.

I do feel sorry for you but I think there are plenty of options you haven't explored yet. I think it's a bit of a leap to go straight to rehoming.

I’ll look into it but I’m not sure if I can afford a behaviourist and I’m also unsure if they would be able to help me.
I’ve already done CARE.

This isn’t a recent thing, she has been uncomfortable around other dogs for years

I’m just completely drained with it now.
I really thought we were over it but her reaction today was the worst I’ve ever seen and I am utterly confused by it as she seemed to have made a massive improvement.

That sounds really stressful. Are you a member of reactive dogs uk on Facebook? They're a fantastic group with lots of resources and excellent support. Even if you do decide to rehome they'll support you with that too. Just to chat to people who understand is a huge help.

@Hotchocolatewithcream

I’ll look into it but I’m not sure if I can afford a behaviourist and I’m also unsure if they would be able to help me. I’ve already done CARE.

This isn’t a recent thing, she has been uncomfortable around other dogs for years

I’m just completely drained with it now.
I really thought we were over it but her reaction today was the worst I’ve ever seen and I am utterly confused by it as she seemed to have made a massive improvement.

I think the first step should be a behaviourist. Is there any reason you've never sought professional help before now?

Practically, could DH take over the walks for a while so you get a bit of a break if you're finding it stressful?

Please don't rehome her.
I completely understand, my dog is exactly like this (although we sort of knew what we were getting ourselves in for, as he is a retired racer which are well known for not particularly liking dogs other than their own kind).
He's never lunged at one, he's more fearful than aggressive but it's still very stressful.
The only way to deal with it was to keep him on the lead and hold him very close to us on it when walking past other dogs.
We only let him go on the extendable lead (very very long, long enough he can run about properly, he can't be let off the lead though as he'd be gone as soon as he saw a bird/rabbit/any small fluffy thing ) when we're somewhere other dogs aren't likely to be (eg big field earlier in the morning/later at night) so he still gets a chance to stretch his legs (he doesn't really need to run around, he's superbly lazy so he's fine with just a few short walks to go to the toilet everyday, but he does enjoy running about if he has the chance, I appreciate this might be harder if your dog really needs to run around to avoid them bouncing off the walls!).

Basically, I suggest keeping them on the lead when you're likely to be around other dogs, holding them close to you when directly walking past them, and if possible, go to less popular places at less popular times so they still get a chance to be off the lead.

This was a bad walk we all have them

What I would say is how well you have done - I mean amazingly well.

That could also be a bit of the problem. She is having a lot of interaction with dogs. I would be happy if some reactive dogs I deal with are calm and relaxed to walk by other dogs and ignore them.

In the short term quiet onlead walks without dog interaction for a bit.

I think you need to lessen her interactions with other dogs. 3 sec rule and no longer. So if you see a dog and are happy with body language etc meet and greet and move on. For some dogs just move on. I would not be encouraging off lead play (many dogs do not need this at all)

What breed is she? (I think I can guess but could be sooo wrong!)

Is she a JRT? I have one that's just like that.

The good thing is she has excellent recall so if I spot a dog coming when she's off lead she will come straight to me and I can put her on the lead to walk past them. Most other owners will do the same when they see me do it.

Ive given up with trying to get her to interact with other dogs nicely. I have 3 dogs altogether so she has enough play and stimulation with them. She just finds other dogs scary and that turns to aggressive growling and showing her teeth. So I just avoid those situations for her.

I know it’s wearing as I also have a reactive dog but rehoming sounds like a massive over reaction . Is she muzzle trained as that would at least mean she can’t actually damage anybody / thing .

My first thought was JRT..... sorry I don't have any practical advice OP but I hope things improve with your dog and walking eventually becomes stress free for you both.

OP my dog is exactly like this. Long story short she cannot be anywhere near other dogs unless there have been slow, proper introductions and she has learned that the specific dog isn't a threat. We've been through 3 behaviourists, I've attended so many classes and whilst sometimes we get minor improvements we have accepted she's just not dog social and we are never going to be able to do the stuff that most people do with their dogs. One behaviourist said she thought there was a significant element of bad breed mix in play; she's a cross breed and she has the typical traits of both breeds, including the bad ones. If a dog is on the other side of the road and looks at her the wrong way, she will lunge, snap, snarl, and she's quite big so she's had me off my feet a couple of times. She's also had a proper go at a smaller dog on a group walk, chasing and pinning her, no actual harm done but it was awful to see, really upsetting.

On lead walks are the worst, so we just don't do them any more. We get out most days off lead to an open space near us where there are mostly no other dogs. On the days we don't go out we do scentwork at home, or practice tricks.

Do you have any secure fields near you? That's been a lifesaver for us, just being able to let her off lead and race around with no worries once a week.

I feel for you, it is hard, it is lonely, and it is stressful. I wouldn't change my girl for the world, she's my life, but it really wasn't what I expected when we got her (rescue) and I often feel like you, that I've failed her, that someone else would have been a better owner.

Please don't give up on her, it really doesn't sound that bad from what you've said, but you may need to adjust your expectations of what she's capable of. Also get a full vet check to make sure she's not in pain for some reason given that today seems to be a bit out of the blue.

I feel your pain. We have a similar fear reactive dog. Who needs loads of exercise but I can’t trust him off the lead. Every walk is stressful and I could just cry. This isn’t what I signed up for when I got a dog. I see other people enjoying lovely chilled walks with their dogs and I’m sad for him and for us really.

We don’t even have any secure fields near us. Not much advice but lots of sympathy.

Would you mind telling me which supplement for anxious dogs you used please?

Sorry no advice, we have a really neurotic dog, he could walk past 9 other dogs on separate occasions on his walk and be absolutely fine, and then we'd pass the 10th dog and for no apparent reason he'd go for them.

As a result I've had to stop taking him to our local doggy meet-ups at the park as I don't trust him 100%. We only walk him on lead, and only let him off lead on a massive field near us where we can see other dog walkers from right across the field and we can get him on his lead as we get closer to them.

Who needs loads of exercise but I can’t trust him off the lead. Every walk is stressful and I could just cry. This isn’t what I signed up for when I got a dog. I see other people enjoying lovely chilled walks with their dogs and I’m sad for him and for us really
Yes, this really sums up how I feel really.

At her worst I used to come home from every single walk in tears. Every day.
Since walking her off leash and just recalling from dogs crying incidents have been few and far between though I still feel intensely lonely sometimes, but that was when I trusted her to do no more than a little growl or lip curl.
I thought her a little grouchy/intolerant, nothing more.
I don’t trust her anymore.

And yes, I really relate to the sadness.
Partly for selfish reasons; a large part of the reason I got a dog was because I have no friends, literally zero and after spending years even more socially isolated avoiding everyone it’s been so wonderful recently seeing her be nice with other dogs and having that social interaction of people talking to me.
Now I have to go back to avoiding everyone.

But mostly I feel heartbroken for her.
She just loves running free.
She is so happy off loose, I feel it’s really abusive to keep her on lead knowing how unhappy she will be.
And she will be unhappy.
No doubt about it, she doesn’t like walking on leash.

And no, no secure fields I can use nearby.

Yes mine’s the same. Ok with 90% of dogs but can’t predict the ones he’ll have an issue with.

Might be easier if it was all dogs!

Ah @Hotchocolatewithcream

It’s such a shame isn’t it? I want my doggie to be running free through fields and that can never happen.

He needs at least 1.5 hours of exercise per day. So that’s 1.5 hours of stress every day for me, him pulling on the lead, me trying to avoid all dogs.

So many dogs have these issues. They have to be walked all the time on lead. It’s not a nice life for them or us. But I don’t have any answers.

Would you consider using a muzzle? Give you a chance to get some confidence back and your dog can still have an off lead run. Just introduce the muzzle slowly.

Would people be cross if they saw an muzzled dog off lead running towards them? What’s the etiquette?

You could always say she eats stones. One of mine is a pain in the backside with other dogs so he is off lead in very quiet places where I can see a good bit ahead. He gets a good run in the field behind us but walked a couple of times a day on his lead. We do sits, downs, stays and try to make the walk more interesting.

I mean this kindly OP, but it sounds like your dog would really benefit from an assessment with a behaviourist and potentially a number of additional sessions with them and/or a specialist reactive dog trainer to determine the root cause of the behaviour and look at how best to address it.

If you can't afford a behaviourist then ultimately you can't afford to be a responsible dog owner, in the same way you should always be able to afford veterinary treatment for them. Out of interest, do you have insurance for her? Some of the better pet insurance policies will cover behavioural referrals if recommended by your vet. If you don't feel like you can do the above, it may well be in your dogs best interests to rehome her so she can hopefully get the help she needs.

You need to find the money for a behaviourist. You would be letting your dog down by not at least trying.
Behaviour is communication. Your dog is telling you something and you’re not listening. Keep away from other dogs.

Behaviour is communication. Your dog is telling you something and you’re not listening. Keep away from other dogs
I was keeping her away from other dogs..
I was walking her off leash, away from other dogs, if I saw a dog approaching I was recalling her.

Recently she has been choosing to approach and interact with others.

I absolutely haven’t encouraged it in any way, in fact, I’ve been walking well away as usual and she has been choosing to run off to be close to the other dogs.

With the exception of today her body language to other dogs has been, to my eye, perfectly friendly.
Right biased loose tail wags, relaxed body etc.

I agree. I really wish my dog would just ignore other dogs. If he doesn’t like other dogs/ is scared that’s fine. We can stay away from them. But no he wants to bound up to every single dogs. We can be in a field and he’ll spot a dog a mile away. He’ll leg it towards the other dog. Why?! If he’s nervous and scared why does he want to go and meet every dog?

I feel for you. Our dog is reactive on the lead but loves to play with other dogs offlead. He loves to play chase and noses the other dogs back end to make it go faster. I suspect he'd nip them if he could but I never let him offlead without a muzzle. The basket type allows the dog to pant drink and take treats with a bit of practice. I think you'd be a lot less stressed if you knew your dog couldn't bite. And she could still enjoy running free. Our rescue lurcher was already muzzle trained when we got him but I believe you train them with pate. There'll be more info online.
Sally Gutteridge book Inspiring Resilience in Fearful and Reactive Dogs is good.
Lots of doggy scuffles are all bark and no bite and you say the other dogs and their owner didn't seem bothered by this incident. Surely if she'd wanted to bite these other dogs she would've done so. Both the book and muzzles are available online. HTH
PS I'd also love to know what was this stuff that calmed her anxiety!
Good luck

My dog loves other dogs and is non reactive. However very long walks, say over an hour off lead meeting many dogs, and interacting with them (which he chooses to do quite selectively - he is two now) can leave him very wound up when we get home...he is unable to settle and keeps barking and attention seeking. I say this only because I wonder whether your dog went for other dogs because he was just tired out...you say very long walk day before too.
Perhaps keep him offlead but reduce length of walk and scale of interaction.
Large looming shapes also make my dog anxious (cue barking) could it be a shape size issue which you could focus on...treating him whenever big dog for example? And not immediately putting him on lead as a defense.

Delatron my gut feeling is they bound up because they want to check out the ',threat". When they are relaxed they seem much more selective, just enjoying walk and being at owners side. I notice this more and more, his confidence means he prefers being at my side off lead, it is fun there. With an occasional foray or sniff of other dogs. He is much more tense on lead.