I’ve had enough

[Hotchocolatewithcream]

I’m a regular poster but name changed.

I’m not sure what I am hoping to gain from this thread, just an outlet to talk/vent I suppose as I don’t really see a solution to the problem.

I feel that I have reached the end of the line with my dog, my patience has largely gone and I feel she would do much better with someone else.

I have said to DH today that I think I should contact some rescues and try to have her rehomed but he isn’t at all keen and thinks it’s a heat of the moment thing and I’ll feel differently later.
I’m not so sure.

In short, she is aggressive around other dogs.
It started roughly when she hit maturity, she’d had a number of negative experiences prior with other dogs but it was one particularly traumatic experience with other dogs that seemed to really trigger it and she was never the same with other dogs since.

I’ve always thought her behaviour was a direct response to her experiences and not genetic but I'm no longer so sure.
I did see her mother who was really lovely but I didn’t see what she was like around other dogs.

After the traumatic incident she started off growling when other dogs were nearby and if at the vet she would lunge at them aswell but that was the only place she’d lunge.
Any other time she’d just growl at them but only if they came close, otherwise she’d largely just ignore them.

From there it escalated, she started tensing up and giving out aggressive signals - direct stares, vertical tail etc as soon as she spotted another dog in the distance on lead.

Sometimes she’d greet another dog fine, other times she growl or lip curl and other owners kept assuring me it was fine, she was just setting boundaries, they needed telling off etc so I didn’t take much action believing it to be normal.

Eventually it became clear she had issue with pretty much all dogs for no easily identifiable reason and I sought help.

She got worse.

Eventually I gave up trying and kept her 100% leashed and well, well away from other dogs.

She got better in that she no longer reacted to the sight of others, she was non reactive around them but would growl at them if they tried to approach her so I started letting her off lead again and would recall her if other dogs were approaching her (she would never approach them)

Not ideal but I accepted some dogs just don’t really like others, she wasnt actively going after them or hurting them or anything so I didn’t consider her dangerous and it was easily manageable.

Recently I started giving her a supplement for anxious dogs and it had a miraculous effect.
Suddenly she was actively choosing to go and say hello to other dogs, choosing to walk with them with or without interaction.
Completely her decision with no influence from me, I would go to walk away from them and she would trot off to go join the dogs and I’d have to change direction and follow her.

I started to relax and actually enjoy my walks and she has been bouncier and more ‘carefree’ than normal.

Yesterday she had a great time.
We were out for hours, she made friends with a big, bouncy dog and greeted loads of others really nicely and walked very happily with them all.

Today.
We’d had a really lovely, long walk, she’d greeted a few dogs perfectly nicely and we came across a small group of fairly large but very calm dogs.

She went to approach them but then seemed to slow down and go a bit tense.
I recalled her and the other owner started telling me it was fine, her dogs were fine etc.
Mine then walked over and two of the other dogs came over to sniff her, she suddenly went for them.
I don’t mean a little growl or a lip curl I mean full on lunge forward snarling and snapping at their faces.
I don’t know if she made contact but it was incredibly loud and frantic and aggressive sounding, one of the other dogs yelped and she raced forward a few paces chasing the dog.

The owner couldn’t have been nicer, I was very upset and apologetic.
The dogs she’d gone for seemed utterly unconcerned about what had just happened but her behaviour has really shaken me.

I no longer feel it would be safe to have her off leash anymore as I don’t feel I can trust her anymore not to properly go for or hurt another dog.

I know she’ll be really upset as she hates being on lead, she lives for racing for miles, jumping over hedges, picking up branches and any old random junk and trotting around carrying them proudly.
She won’t be able to do any of that and I feel really guilty.

But I don’t feel I have any other option.

I feel like I’ve failed her and she needs a much more knowledgeable home with a more experienced owner.

If you come back...

A behaviourist would be able to help you, honestly, because you don’t need to trust her with other dogs, you just need to trust that you can manage her so she doesn’t meet the other dogs...

Even worst case, long lines and leads longterm are fine, muzzles aren’t a punishment, they just become part of their walking stuff.

And your DH needs to pull his weight if you’re not coping just now - especially as it’s him forcing the issue.

Like I said earlier - living with a reactive dog day in day out can be really hard emotionally... I’ve literally sat down in the middle of a field and cried, couldn’t even make it home to do it, lol

If it helps you feel any better.
Mine ran out, of the house and has barked at passers by. She also barks at nothing inside. Like you I'm bloody fed up with it.

@MotherForker

You are making this all about you and not about her.

I don't think that's fair. Having a reactive dog is really, really difficult and lots of owners give up because often it's impossible to "cure" a dog of it completely. So, in a lot of ways, it IS about OP. She's the one who has to live with her dog day in, day out, and it's not easy.

You have to deal with judgemental dog owners, people making snide comments about the fact that your dog is aggressive or out of control or just plain nasty. You get people making comments about how you've not socialised your dog properly, how you're a shit owner and how it must be all your fault. It's HARD.

Most reactive dogs are reactive through no fault of their own. They've had a bad experience as a puppy, they've grown up in a neglectful environment (often common with rescue dogs). It only takes one bad experience for a dog to be reactive for life. Mine was bitten as a puppy. He was on his lead and doing nothing wrong - two dogs appeared out of nowhere and pinned him down and bit him. He's been reactive ever since. Nothing I could have done differently would have stopped him being attacked.

I've worked bloody hard to help him - training classes and constant vigilance but he still reacts at times, especially when a dog appears out of nowhere or won't leave him alone. I'll have to work with him for life. It's a big commitment.

I don't have anything more to add than others have said on here and I thank my lucky stars that I don't have a reactive dog.

But I think you have as much of a DH issue as a dog issue. He doesn't want to rehome but you are the one walking her. WTF!

I think some people on this thread are being very unkind. It’s so stressful having a reactive dog. It’s the opposite of what you envisaged a life with a dog would be. It’s sad for them and you.

You’ve done better than I have OP. My dog is reactive and has pretty poor recall (if other dogs are around).

We just had a lovely walk (on lead) the whole time every time I saw a dog I gave him treats, no fear nothing. Until a bulldog (he’s been attacked by one before) came up to him and the owner couldn’t call him off. So my dog growled and made it clear that he wasn’t happy. I guess he’s now over his threshold and that’s days of walks round the industrial estate where we see nobody for us.

It’s a lonely road. We’ve had two personal trainers and a training course. How do you train a dog that has been attached multiple times not to be scared?

Attacked

My dog is reactive. She’s a rescue, so not sure why. She’s only ever consistently been nice to my neighbours springer spaniel. She’s also ok on the beach, if nearby dogs don’t approach. Those that do she’ll warn off and thankfully they usually bugger off as she goes for them eventually otherwise. She hates labradors with a passion, as she has been attacked 3 times (when she has been on a lead!) by them, twice was the same dog. So we have to be mega vigilant around labs.
She has also got a lot worse since we had a baby. She used to kick off if
a dog went anywhere near his pram.
It’s a pain in the arse, but We have to leash her for most walks and only let her off lead if we have a clear view of what’s approaching and put her back on the lead if there’s another dog coming.
She’s an absolute darling otherwise. You just have to learn to live with it. She’s about 12 now and has gotten a bit more “chill” in her old age.

Hi if you do come back to the thread, its not the end of the world for a dog to always be on a lead, they will get used to it, my two are almost never off (especially 1, poor recall and I don't have time for intensive training). They love running off lead but I'm not prepared with the worry of what they might do/get lost etc, so they stay on lead.

There are loads of dogs much worse off, she's in a loving home, she's getting walks. Maybe occasionally you could take her with a friend plus dog to a private field or a deserted beach and let them run, if you feel up to it.

I really recommend the facebook group NBN (for naughty but nice dogs) and the trainers associated with it Absolute Dogs, lots of great advice.

The thing that really scares me about something like this is recently my dog did truly appear to be cured.

Reactive dogs generally are never "cured", you would need to lower your expectations and manage her issues. Letting her off lead with a group of dogs after having a magic pill was naïve.

My dniece has a highly reactive rescue dog as her first dog (collie/gsd cross that was previously neglected, attacked almost daily when left home alone all day with 2 sbt). Experience isn't necessary, she had no previous experience of dogs, she was only 20 when she got him, he was around 18 months - 2 years old, but she was committed to him.

She manages him by only letting him off lead where there is no chance of meeting another dog, using a long training lead/harness, teaching very good recall, took him to agility classes and competitions (muzzled at first) with a very understanding coach to get his mind working and have him around other dogs, takes him to an enclosed dog field she hires, takes him for regular walks/runs with "safe" dogs he has been carefully introduced to, knows and is happy with.

5 years on with a few major bumps along the way (including a thankfully very understanding rescue dog loving postie with a sore hand) he leads a full and happy life, most reactive dogs can if you are committed to finding solutions and manage them.

OP, are you getting any help for your own social anxiety? I think that might actually be a more useful step than anything more you can do with the dog. Social isolation makes everything seem worse. And your DH needs to start walking the dog.

I do understand how hard it is. My dog , she suddenly snaps and gets the zoomies and runs and jumps up at me, biting, snapping and growling. I am covered in bruises and cuts from it. She is a large dog (25kg) and has adult teeth. It really hurts.

It is demoralising and when people witness it, it looks like she is attacking me. We are working on it slowly with a muzzle, a behaviourist etc.

But the OP hasn't tried much. And is far too concerned about what other people think.

But the OP hasn't tried much

• CARE/positive reinforcement
• Behaviourists
• ‘Balanced’ training
• More exercise
• Less exercise
• Diet change
• Anxious dog supplements
• Keeping away from dogs
• Treating when seeing dogs
• Walking past dogs at heel
• 2 second greetings
• More mental stimulation
• Less mental stimulation
• Goodness knows how many of hours of dog body language videos/dog training videos/dog training books/dog behaviour books

Over years.
Not a few weeks or a few months.

No, I haven’t tried much at all really 🤷‍♀️

@MotherForker

I do understand how hard it is. My dog , she suddenly snaps and gets the zoomies and runs and jumps up at me, biting, snapping and growling. I am covered in bruises and cuts from it. She is a large dog (25kg) and has adult teeth. It really hurts.

It is demoralising and when people witness it, it looks like she is attacking me. We are working on it slowly with a muzzle, a behaviourist etc.

But the OP hasn't tried much. And is far too concerned about what other people think.

OP has tried plenty.

Please don't cast your judgements on her and criticise her. Reactive dog owners need as much support and solidarity as they can get. It can be a lonely road being the owner of a dog like that.

Op has tried so much. Stop the judgement!

Hi OP I hope you’re feeling calmer now youre qhome. The thing that jumped out at me from your op was you did notice the change in body language, you went to recall and the other owner said it was ok. You had read the signals but were convinced otherwise. You’re doing ok.

Do you love your dog, would it break your heart to rehome? You can do this.

Billypup is unpredictable, if she’s off lead I can’t 100% trust her recall. When she’s onlead she’ll bark at other dogs. She chases runners and cyclists.

We now use a 5m longline which she can get a fair speed up. We have to be alert and will recall when we see any of her triggers coming. We also only let her on the longline on wide open spaces so we can easily control the environment. She also has a harness with a handle on which is great. We still make mistakes but you mustn’t let yourself get beaten up by it.

Tonight have a cuddle with your dog and a glass of whatever helps you to calm down. Avoid walking for the next couple of days then try again. You are doing ok.

Sorry to derail but I can’t get on with the longline?

My lab takes off at high speed and I’ve suffered rope burn/nearly had my arm ripped off? What’s the technique?

@Delatron

Sorry to derail but I can’t get on with the longline?

My lab takes off at high speed and I’ve suffered rope burn/nearly had my arm ripped off? What’s the technique?

You don’t use it as a really long lead.

You leave it trailing on the ground and stand on it, a few big knots help, then when the dog is stopped you can pull them in with it.

Thanks @tabulahrasa I’ll try that.

OP all your dog wants is to feel safe and relaxed. So if that means lead walks and less walks than some dogs that is great for your dog. She does not have to have the perfect life she needs the right life for her which may look different to some dogs - that is fine.

You do not need to walk him everyday, take a few days off when you and her need a break - it is fine to do that.

A good behaviourist should work to help you find out ways you can enjoy your dog as well as look at the reactivity. Having some good time together helps you both so much.

Do not let other peoples opinions affect you. You have done nothing wrong some dogs are genetically wired in a different way you are the best owner for your dog. Do not be hard on yourself. Look at the things your dog is good at.

Re Long lines Grisha Stewart has a webinar out on long line handling and it is amazing well worth a watch but I think she is charging for it.

Clearly the meds have made a difference to her anxiety which is great.
Read up on trigger stacking and be aware if other stressors leading up to incidents like this. Also beware of groups - most dogs don't like being outnumbered.

When my dog feels overwhelmed/outnumbered (we occasionally meet dog walkers with large groups of off lead dogs) she'll sometimes growl, snap and chase a few steps or run away. She has NEVER bitten. It is simply normal dog space-creating communication, usually reserved for groups of boisterous Labradors/golden doodles or other super-friendly but utterly mannerless (from a dog point of view) dogs who can be quite terrifying from a nervous dog point of view.

Think of yourself being out at a social event and being bombarded by a large group of young adults who are over excited and bolshy - you'd probably tell them to get lost - it doesn't mean you're an aggressive human - you're simply responding to stress triggers

I think you need to relax a bit and read about dog behaviour. He interaction was clearly not a problem for the dogs

We aren't kicking you while you're down OP it just isn't what you want to hear. It could be possible to retrain her to a stage where she can be taught to ignore other dogs completely and you could then do what I do and exercise her on a long line like they use for horses. One of mine is untrustworthy around other intact males so I can't let him loose. It doesn't matter that he isn't human aggressive. He's bloody heavy and if a child or someone unsteady on their feet was in the way he could really hurt them.

It isnt anything you've done or not done, some dogs are like that. Look at my two. One I don't even know where her lead is, I haven't used it in months. The other is a gem 99% of the time but I'll never trust him because he gives no bloody warning, just goes. We just have to work with what we've got, accept they'll never be cured and manage their behaviour as best we can. If that means long leads, muzzles and never letting our guard down thats the chance we take when we decide to have them. If the lead/muzzle made him miserable and I couldn't trust him without then I'd have to think seriously about solutions such as using a private field with the landowners permission, retraining, rehoming to someone specialising in dogs with behavioural problems or putting him down. It would devastate me to do it and it would be the last resort only if he was a danger that I couldn't manage. As it is, I can manage, he can't physically overpower me and he is never given the opportunity to get away from me so its fine. If he were much bigger or I were suddenly unable to handle him then I'd have to start thinking about quality of life but you aren't nearly there yet. You've still got a lot of options open to you.

If you do decide to rehome please be mindful of where to as many shelters will euthanize aggressive dogs as rehousing them is too much of a liability.

OP I dont know where abouts you are but if you are near me you are more than welcome to use our fields for off lead blast. No dogs will be in the area and you can both chill out and just be together in a stressfree (and totally non judgemental place!)

Also again if in a different area I have colleagues all across the UK who may have land you can use if that would help?

I go on about this a lot but dogs love using their nose. Scentwork and scatter feeding is incredibly tiring for all dogs. It releases loads of the happy chilled hormones too which helps dogs in all aspects of their life. It also take up a lot of their brain so a sniffing dog can not be an anxious dog - speak to your behaviourist about introducing scent work into walks, 1. she will be less stressed 2, she will be knackered!

@Delatron. Tent peg. Loop it back on itself or attach a carabiner to it and use a tent peg to secure it into the grass. 2 pegs if he's heavy. Then you put him on a front fastening harness to attach it to him so he cant throw his weight behind it. Start with it in a coil at your feet and if he starts to bolt step on it before he gets a chance to build up much momentum.

When you're walking with him, just keep him on a short lead or grab loop.

Umm standing on long lines is really risky to the person standing on the line........

Its always worked for me. I dont give him a chance to build up any speed. As soon as his ears prick up, I'm on it and reeling him in. Plus as I said, its secured into the grass already.