I’ve had enough

[Hotchocolatewithcream]

I’m a regular poster but name changed.

I’m not sure what I am hoping to gain from this thread, just an outlet to talk/vent I suppose as I don’t really see a solution to the problem.

I feel that I have reached the end of the line with my dog, my patience has largely gone and I feel she would do much better with someone else.

I have said to DH today that I think I should contact some rescues and try to have her rehomed but he isn’t at all keen and thinks it’s a heat of the moment thing and I’ll feel differently later.
I’m not so sure.

In short, she is aggressive around other dogs.
It started roughly when she hit maturity, she’d had a number of negative experiences prior with other dogs but it was one particularly traumatic experience with other dogs that seemed to really trigger it and she was never the same with other dogs since.

I’ve always thought her behaviour was a direct response to her experiences and not genetic but I'm no longer so sure.
I did see her mother who was really lovely but I didn’t see what she was like around other dogs.

After the traumatic incident she started off growling when other dogs were nearby and if at the vet she would lunge at them aswell but that was the only place she’d lunge.
Any other time she’d just growl at them but only if they came close, otherwise she’d largely just ignore them.

From there it escalated, she started tensing up and giving out aggressive signals - direct stares, vertical tail etc as soon as she spotted another dog in the distance on lead.

Sometimes she’d greet another dog fine, other times she growl or lip curl and other owners kept assuring me it was fine, she was just setting boundaries, they needed telling off etc so I didn’t take much action believing it to be normal.

Eventually it became clear she had issue with pretty much all dogs for no easily identifiable reason and I sought help.

She got worse.

Eventually I gave up trying and kept her 100% leashed and well, well away from other dogs.

She got better in that she no longer reacted to the sight of others, she was non reactive around them but would growl at them if they tried to approach her so I started letting her off lead again and would recall her if other dogs were approaching her (she would never approach them)

Not ideal but I accepted some dogs just don’t really like others, she wasnt actively going after them or hurting them or anything so I didn’t consider her dangerous and it was easily manageable.

Recently I started giving her a supplement for anxious dogs and it had a miraculous effect.
Suddenly she was actively choosing to go and say hello to other dogs, choosing to walk with them with or without interaction.
Completely her decision with no influence from me, I would go to walk away from them and she would trot off to go join the dogs and I’d have to change direction and follow her.

I started to relax and actually enjoy my walks and she has been bouncier and more ‘carefree’ than normal.

Yesterday she had a great time.
We were out for hours, she made friends with a big, bouncy dog and greeted loads of others really nicely and walked very happily with them all.

Today.
We’d had a really lovely, long walk, she’d greeted a few dogs perfectly nicely and we came across a small group of fairly large but very calm dogs.

She went to approach them but then seemed to slow down and go a bit tense.
I recalled her and the other owner started telling me it was fine, her dogs were fine etc.
Mine then walked over and two of the other dogs came over to sniff her, she suddenly went for them.
I don’t mean a little growl or a lip curl I mean full on lunge forward snarling and snapping at their faces.
I don’t know if she made contact but it was incredibly loud and frantic and aggressive sounding, one of the other dogs yelped and she raced forward a few paces chasing the dog.

The owner couldn’t have been nicer, I was very upset and apologetic.
The dogs she’d gone for seemed utterly unconcerned about what had just happened but her behaviour has really shaken me.

I no longer feel it would be safe to have her off leash anymore as I don’t feel I can trust her anymore not to properly go for or hurt another dog.

I know she’ll be really upset as she hates being on lead, she lives for racing for miles, jumping over hedges, picking up branches and any old random junk and trotting around carrying them proudly.
She won’t be able to do any of that and I feel really guilty.

But I don’t feel I have any other option.

I feel like I’ve failed her and she needs a much more knowledgeable home with a more experienced owner.

@Delatron

Thanks *@Leeeeeeeeeeeeeee* cotton long line is a good idea! I’ve also found a secure field 20 mins away. Just wish there was as one in walking distance! I’m happy to pay for peace of mind.

I’m coming to terms that long walks off lead, bounding through fields will be off the cards permanently.

Should have got a small dog!

I've got a small reactive one 🤨 - After two years of training, behaviourists, long drives to doggy day cares with behaviourists who thought they could fix him .... I resigned myself to the fact that he will always be reactive, he will always take off across the park to attack large un neutered male dogs (he can spot them miles away) and can be unpredictable with some neutered ones, particularly labs, he really doesn't like labs.

It does affect where we walk - no narrow paths where we might have restricted room to pass other dogs - so one of my favourite forest walks is out - but there are other places we can go. We do have incidents, he's always on lead and sometimes dogs approach and he turns into a snarling snapping demon - I've never had another owner give me a hard time - I just say "sorry, rescue with issues" and often have a nice chat at a distance about not knowing what he's gone through.

If it were my dog @Hotchocolatewithcream, and I know you are at the end of your tether, I can hear that, I would be more up front with other owners, try not to feel embarrassed. It's perfectly OK to say "I'm sorry, she was attacked when younger which has made her reactive"

We get that you don't want to muzzle her - I had a flatcoated retriever who had to be muzzled because she was a right cow with other dogs, she hated it, but it was that or lead only and it's a breed that needs to run - people assumed she was muzzled because she was a poo eater.

I had another rescue (Liverpool latch key Mutt dog via the RSPCA) who thought it was his job to defend his bitches, After paying one lot of vets fees on a dog he attacked I only ever walked him on lead after that, with muzzle.

No, it absolutely is not as much fun with a reactive dog, having to be on your guard the whole time, it really does affect the quality of the dog walk, no doubt about it. The three reactives I've had were worth it though because at home they were a joy to live with.

Re-reading your OP I really do think you have done wonders with her - she clearly can be OK around other dogs - you just made the mistake of thinking she was "fixed" and not understanding that she still has thresholds and can have too much dog to dog stimulation.

It's OK to have a non-walking day after a really good day of walks and interactions, I often don't walk my dogs on bright sunny weekends, there are too many people out with dogs and small children, and the dogs are often dogs that only get short walks during the week, or are walked with dog walkers - in my experience I have more problems at those times.

good luck and be kind to yourself, you've put in a lot of work and it is paying off, you made a mistake by letting her get overstimulated, but you can learn from it.

If you really have reached the end of your ability to walk her, and dh wants to keep her, then he will have to take on that responsibility.

Ah you sound responsible @Catsrus Some owners with small dogs think that because they are small it doesn’t matter if they run up and behave aggressively towards a larger dog. Small dogs can still scare bigger dogs.

My lab is petrified of small terriers and bulldogs! (These are the breeds that attacked him)

Even yesterday he was on lead and a bulldog off lead was bothering him. He growled and snarled while I tried to drag him away the owner did nothing.

I've read all your posts OP and I just want to give you a virtual hug. Having a reactive dog is so fricken hard. We have spend a fortune and hundreds of hours training on various rescues over the years.

We've had to change our expectations- we're so far removed from the life we thought we'd lead with a dog. But it's worked out ok for us.

We now have greyhounds who are always muzzled and never off lead. We have a little cross breed who is horrid out of the house.

We don't walk the three of them together as it just doesn't work. We do lots of brain games, sniffy walks and hire secure fields when we feel like it.

They are all great in their own ways but not in the same way, and not all at once.

Wish you luck op.

Op I'm sorry your having a rubbish time. I think posters on here are being very harsh too. Dog ownership at times can be hellishly hard. Over the weekend I shed many tears because I could not get my rescue dog to stop barking. She had taken offence at the fire (despite having had a fire daily for weeks) and just did not stop for hours. If someone had offered to take her away in the moment I'd had sent her!

But I love her and that's not going to happen. But I do have some idea of how it feels!

I wouldn't worry to much about what happened on your walk. It sounds to me like she's improved massively from where she was a few months ago. It sounds to me like she was confronted with several dogs that were significantly bigger than her. I'm not surprised she was nervous and aggressive. None of the dogs were hurt. I'd go back to walking places where you are less likely to meet other dogs. Keep practicing her recall and make sure you always have high value treats on hand when on walks. Or perhaps put a longline on her when she's off lead so you can grab her out if needs be. But don't limit her to offlead from one bad meeting. There are also enclosed dog fields in some places that you can rent for an hour. It might be worth having a look and seeing if there is one near you. That way you could give her a really good off lead run without worrying.

I'd also be thinking about finding a trainer. Even if it's just once a month. If nothing else they are someone to bounce ideas off. I took mine out with the trainer yesterday and she had filled me back up with confidence are a really horrible weekend.
Good luck and be kind to yourself.

Hello everyone.
Quick update for you all, it’s not going too well really.

I have deliberately increased the length of her walks to try and get more exercise in as usually she’d run considerable distance.
Whereas usually she’d fall asleep after a walk she is no longer tired after her walk but I’ve hit 10 miles most walks.
I don’t think I have the time or stamina to do more.
I am thinking about buying an extendable but frankly, she’s not going to be able to run about like she’d like to on an extendable or a long line though she’d obviously have more freedom than she does right now.

I’m noticing a definite decline in her behaviour, she’s been bothering the cat more to the point this evening I ended up shouting at her to leave her alone and putting her in a down stay in her bed.

She’s become more reactive to noises, rushing to the door whenever someone approaches or someone goes to leave the house and looking concerned at outdoor noises.

She has been worse than normal for begging and I’ve caught her rifling through the bin three times now.

She has started getting cross when told to stay in her bed to stop said door rushing.
Eg today, FIL arrived to take the kids to school.
I asked her to settle in bed which she’d nornally do without complaint because I didn’t want her rushing at the door or moving around my narrow hallway with my three children with their big school bags and DH and she’d be in the way.
Que a tense sit instead of a lie down and when asked to lie down lots of whining and cross growling/grumbling/moaning type noises.

I think she is finding walks stressful.
I don’t think they are tiring her as normal and I think my decision to walk predominantly on the pavements where there is traffic and lots of people as opposed to the quiet, ‘rural’ routes I’d usually opt for (to try and minimise the risk of seeing dogs or worse, having loose dogs rush over to her) is stressing her out.
But I could be wrong.

On top of that we’ve had some absolutely shocking and really awful news today re some of DH’s family.

I’m intensely stressed with it all and not having a good time at all, my poor DH has gone to bed with a stress headache, I’m going to put our youngest to bed now.

I’m going to go back to rural walks and see if that improves anything but I’m mindful that at some point the chances of a recall less dog bounding over are fairly high and if I get a repeat performance of her behaviour I may well have to seriously consider muzzling her despite being adamant I wouldn’t.

All in all, I’m sorry for the posters who felt I was being a bit selfish and making it all about me but honestly, sorry for the self pitying, but this is just not what I envisioned dog ownership to be.
I’m not enjoying it right now at all and if I could go back in time I 100% would never have bought a dog.

Be kind to yourself, OP

I will try and answer some of your points but please don't feel the need to rush back to this thread. Take some time out if you need it.

• I don't think walking a reactive dog on pavements is a good idea. There are too many potential stressors - children, other dogs, traffic, building noise, being splashed from puddles, other people, shopping trolleys - it can be very overwhelming. I think a rural location where you may spot the odd dog (but nothing else) will be a lot less stressful for her.

• Overly long walks can do the opposite of what you intend them to do - they can overstimulate and then the dog finds it impossible to relax. I find with my beagle that anything between 60-90 minutes will tire him out, but anything over two hours does the opposite and he won't settle despite clearly being exhausted. It's like what can happen with us if we've had a stressful day - we're exhausted but can't switch our brains off.

I know you've said your DH is going through some family problems but I really think it would be hugely beneficial for you to have some time off from walking the dog. Just don't take her - let your DH do all the walks for a while, or hire a dog walker and get someone else to take her out.

You're clearly struggling and dogs are excellent are picking up on our emotions. Some time off from the dog would do you both the world of good - you'd get time alone in the house without the dog, and someone else can take her out and exercise her. Going out with someone new should help tire her out as well!

You poor thing. It is awful when they behave like that.
However I do think too much exercise on lead (and off) can make some dogs overtired and unable to settle. I would go back to rural walks and some offlead freedom, but far far less distance covered.
I've found that if I treat the walk offlead as dog paying interest in me and vice versa, rather than what distractions will we encounter, the focus of dog is on human companion, enjoying running around after or before me off lead and relaxing with me, sniffing territory etc, rather than thinking about the other dogs much.

I think lead, AND other dogs are both distinct things that makes your dog feel wired and unrelaxed. So difficulty, challenge is to find some off lead rambling, following, that isn't about letting your dog off in a big open space to race up to others. Dog does the mad racing in big open space but I think what he likes best is following me on a path through varied terrain, no other dogs necessary for stimulation, and it is calming too compared to road walking on lead

The above advice is really good.

As you know I’m struggling with this too. I’ve contacted a dog walker today ( who works with reactive dogs and walks them alone). Just a break for one day would be amazing. I also think dogs can pick up on your stress.

I’ve been firing a constant stream of treats in my dog’s mouth the minute we spot another dog and this seems to be helping. He’s less nervous and doesn’t glue himself to the spot like he used to.

I’ve no real advice but your constant treating in your last post does remind me of a book I read some years ago where a discussion of similar behaviours recommended a “shower of treats” from the moment another dog heaves into view until they are well past each other- well distanced, of course.

Perhaps you are onto something with that tactic.

I think you need to relax a bit and read about dog behaviour. He interaction was clearly not a problem for the dogs
I agree with this.

She doesn't really like other dogs, she was approached by a gang of them and tensed up, they ignored her body language so she snapped at them. Thats what dogs do. That's how she tells them to go away when tensing/body language doesn't work.
She didn't run up to them, and she didn't attack them. She's been much better with dogs on their own. Sounds like you have done a great job.

If I was you, I'd be doing off lead walks but being vigilant and if I saw situation approaching me that concerned me (multiple off lead dogs, dogs on the lead, puppies) I'd recallvery early, put her on the lead and do lots of heel/treats as we went past. Maybe you could start off with an extending lead that you can retract in circumstances that concern you.

Also, when dogs have snapped at my off lead puppy I haven't judged the dog or the owner. My puppy was usually being annoying, the dog told him. It helps him learn manners.
He will sometimes snap himself if other dogs run up and try to take his ball, again I'm not worried as he's telling them to get off, rather than he's about to attack them.
(I'm fully expecting a kicking on here now).
Good luck op.

I agree @QuentinWinters my dog was frequently growled and snapped at as a puppy, because she was relentless and annoying! She still gets it sometimes, because she doesn't seem to read other dog body language very well and is very keen, but intense.