I’ve had enough

[Hotchocolatewithcream]

I’m a regular poster but name changed.

I’m not sure what I am hoping to gain from this thread, just an outlet to talk/vent I suppose as I don’t really see a solution to the problem.

I feel that I have reached the end of the line with my dog, my patience has largely gone and I feel she would do much better with someone else.

I have said to DH today that I think I should contact some rescues and try to have her rehomed but he isn’t at all keen and thinks it’s a heat of the moment thing and I’ll feel differently later.
I’m not so sure.

In short, she is aggressive around other dogs.
It started roughly when she hit maturity, she’d had a number of negative experiences prior with other dogs but it was one particularly traumatic experience with other dogs that seemed to really trigger it and she was never the same with other dogs since.

I’ve always thought her behaviour was a direct response to her experiences and not genetic but I'm no longer so sure.
I did see her mother who was really lovely but I didn’t see what she was like around other dogs.

After the traumatic incident she started off growling when other dogs were nearby and if at the vet she would lunge at them aswell but that was the only place she’d lunge.
Any other time she’d just growl at them but only if they came close, otherwise she’d largely just ignore them.

From there it escalated, she started tensing up and giving out aggressive signals - direct stares, vertical tail etc as soon as she spotted another dog in the distance on lead.

Sometimes she’d greet another dog fine, other times she growl or lip curl and other owners kept assuring me it was fine, she was just setting boundaries, they needed telling off etc so I didn’t take much action believing it to be normal.

Eventually it became clear she had issue with pretty much all dogs for no easily identifiable reason and I sought help.

She got worse.

Eventually I gave up trying and kept her 100% leashed and well, well away from other dogs.

She got better in that she no longer reacted to the sight of others, she was non reactive around them but would growl at them if they tried to approach her so I started letting her off lead again and would recall her if other dogs were approaching her (she would never approach them)

Not ideal but I accepted some dogs just don’t really like others, she wasnt actively going after them or hurting them or anything so I didn’t consider her dangerous and it was easily manageable.

Recently I started giving her a supplement for anxious dogs and it had a miraculous effect.
Suddenly she was actively choosing to go and say hello to other dogs, choosing to walk with them with or without interaction.
Completely her decision with no influence from me, I would go to walk away from them and she would trot off to go join the dogs and I’d have to change direction and follow her.

I started to relax and actually enjoy my walks and she has been bouncier and more ‘carefree’ than normal.

Yesterday she had a great time.
We were out for hours, she made friends with a big, bouncy dog and greeted loads of others really nicely and walked very happily with them all.

Today.
We’d had a really lovely, long walk, she’d greeted a few dogs perfectly nicely and we came across a small group of fairly large but very calm dogs.

She went to approach them but then seemed to slow down and go a bit tense.
I recalled her and the other owner started telling me it was fine, her dogs were fine etc.
Mine then walked over and two of the other dogs came over to sniff her, she suddenly went for them.
I don’t mean a little growl or a lip curl I mean full on lunge forward snarling and snapping at their faces.
I don’t know if she made contact but it was incredibly loud and frantic and aggressive sounding, one of the other dogs yelped and she raced forward a few paces chasing the dog.

The owner couldn’t have been nicer, I was very upset and apologetic.
The dogs she’d gone for seemed utterly unconcerned about what had just happened but her behaviour has really shaken me.

I no longer feel it would be safe to have her off leash anymore as I don’t feel I can trust her anymore not to properly go for or hurt another dog.

I know she’ll be really upset as she hates being on lead, she lives for racing for miles, jumping over hedges, picking up branches and any old random junk and trotting around carrying them proudly.
She won’t be able to do any of that and I feel really guilty.

But I don’t feel I have any other option.

I feel like I’ve failed her and she needs a much more knowledgeable home with a more experienced owner.

Please don’t rehome if you can help it. The reality is that some dogs do live out their lives being on the lead - or only off lead when it’s super safe. That’s still a better life than in kennels.

Can you walk at a time of day where no other dogs are around? I do totally feel for you - but someone else isn’t going to magically cure this, and the chances are your dog will just be with someone else who still walks them on the lead.

Yesterday she had a great time.
We were out for hours, she made friends with a big, bouncy dog and greeted loads of others really nicely and walked very happily with them all.

Today.
We’d had a really lovely, long walk, she’d greeted a few dogs perfectly nicely and we came across a small group of fairly large but very calm dogs.

Have you read up on the bucket theory? Basically for anxious, reactive dogs you can be overstimulating them (unintentionally) with walks and play etc, filling up their ‘bucket’ until they reach a spilling over point. If you’d had a long walk yesterday that went well, today you’d go for something low key and no dogs to greet, to allow the bucket to empty.

I also think it sounds as if your dog choosing to go to greet other dogs now means she’s choosing not to listen to you - you should still be able to recall her, not have to change direction on your walk etc. So build on only letting her have interactions when you choose.

The group of dogs could have been an issue too - if those dogs are a pack, or just very friendly from walks together, the individual dogs might have looked calm to you but the group dynamic might have been too much for her.

I do think a good behaviourist could work wonders for your confidence as much as anything else.

Thanks @Nettleskeins
Yes mine is more fearful on lead. He literally freezes and drops in to a down position.

I’m wondering about a muzzle so he can run around off lead. He’s a working lab so needs lots of exercise. It’s a pain if he can’t run around.

My two frenchbulldogs are awful on lead, bark and lunge at other dogs, sound so aggressive. They are fine off lead.
We are now working with a trainer and it is helping, they are training me more than the dogs, helping me ‘read’ their actions so I can reward and correct when necessary.
I sometimes used to dread taking them out, but slowly my confidence is growing. We have good and bad days but are getting there.

Giving him to a rescue won't solve the problem for the dog, it will for the OP of course.

He'll probably still end up being walked on a lead. The only difference will be he'll have to get used to new people and places which will increase his stress and likely make him more reactive.

My dog became a bit like this after being attacked.

I found a reactive dog class where all dogs had to be muzzled and all you did was walk around a field so the dogs did too. But while they were walking, they were working out their issues with each other and learning socialisation and dog manners off each other.

Worked a treat for her.

Maybe look for something like that in your area, or a trainer with a large pack that will do that with you.

Just keep her on the lead. Many dogs who can’t be trusted are kept on the lead.

Just keep her on the lead. Many dogs who can’t be trusted are kept on the lead
I will be of course, I just feel really guilty about it as she hates being on the lead.

Our walks are now exclusively pavement because any ‘open’ area she stops, looks at me, looks at the open area, whines, because she is desperate to get off and run about.
I’m just feeling really shit about it all and tbh, a bit resentful.

It’s been really nice recently having other people with their dogs walk with me and talk to me.
Now I’m back to staying well away from everyone.
I literally only have my DH and my children in my life.
My parents are very far away and DHs family don’t like me and I’m too shy to join anything.
I’m just feeling so shitty about it all.

I found a reactive dog class where all dogs had to be muzzled and all you did was walk around a field so the dogs did too. But while they were walking, they were working out their issues with each other and learning socialisation and dog manners off each other
The thing that really scares me about something like this is recently my dog did truly appear to be cured.

When she had been meeting other dogs before (before she went for the group) I couldn’t see any negative body language at all.
There was no tension approaching other dogs, there were right biased relaxed tail wags, happy faces etc.
Some of the dogs she was playing chase with, others she was greeting and both dogs after saying hello continued with their walk; still walking together but not interacting and she seemed so happy.

So to go like that so suddenly and so aggressively, it’s really shook me.
The dogs she went for were so placid and unthreatening, there was just no need for it.
It wasn’t like they had all rushed over or jumped on her or something.
And the intensity of it, it wasn’t just a little growl.
She properly went for them.
Tbh, I’m not at all convinced that if I hadn’t shouted at her she wouldn’t have properly bitten them.
That’s assuming she didn’t make contact, I didn’t see any injury/blood and they did seem unconcerned once I’d got her lead on but they were very thickly furred, maybe she did make contact and I just didn’t see any injury because of the dense fur.
No way of knowing.
I honestly just don’t trust her anymore.
Even she did a class like this and was lovely, I could never trust her again.

Have you taken her to the vet to see if there's something wrong? She could be in pain.

I'd train her to tolerate a muzzle AND take her to a socialisation class, one with a view to going forever. You could make some friends there?

What breed is she? Apologies if you've already said.

Firstly I’d check your insurance and see if a behaviourist is covered... secondly, the way a behaviourist works means it’s not as expensive as you’d think.

The fee covers an assessment, a plan and then usually remote support while you work on that plan. So it’s weeks, sometimes months covered by the fee - sometimes you never end up getting them back out if something is resolved.

So while it seems expensive, it’s actually often cheaper than things like training classes.

Also... it kind of sounds like she can’t be off lead not because of how she is with dogs, but because her recall isn’t great - that’s an easier fix, train recall and use a longline just now.

If walking is stressing you out - then don’t for a couple of days till you figure out how you’re moving forward, do something at home with her that’ll tire her out mentally instead.

And yep, it can be really hard work emotionally owning a reactive dog - it pretty much sucks a lot of the time.

Do check your insurance for cover for a behaviourist. Even if you have to pay privately, a competent experienced behaviourist will still not be as much as you might think, and will help you spot some cues that you may have missed and help develop your confidence, which I suspect is now part of the problem.

I think you need to read up on the bucket theory.

You say this happened after two consecutive days of long walks and a fair bit of interaction with other dogs. That may have pushed her over her "limit" and therefore she needed some quieter, easier days to let her bucket empty again.

A dog can only take so much before they struggle - some dogs can take huge amounts but others will never be able to manage that much. While long walks with lots of running are great fun, they also build up her adrenaline and can cause reactive behaviour because she's too hyped up.

Try alternating how you walk her. So some days she can go off lead and run. Other days she gets slow, sniffy pavement walks. Even skip the odd day if she's had a busy day the day before - reactive dogs genuinely do benefit from time "out" so they can decompress.

You sound very overwhelmed but a lot of your previous post is nothing to do with the dog. Lockdown is hard on everyone - please don't let the struggles of lockdown force you into making a decision you come to regret.

It’s your confidence that’s the main issue, OP. And good behaviourists help the owner, not the dog. Look into it, really.

And yes to recall and a long line.

Also... it kind of sounds like she can’t be off lead not because of how she is with dogs, but because her recall isn’t great - that’s an easier fix, train recall and use a longline just now
No not at all actually.
Her recall is pretty good.
When I said in my earlier posts that she was choosing to go off in a different way to what I was walking after the other dogs and I followed her that is true, but only because she seemed relaxed so I let her go off and followed her and as every interaction was friendly with no issues I just carried on letting her go and greet others.
If I had recalled her away she would have come.

But if her recall is good, you can let her off lead? Because you can just recall her before approaching any other dogs. You’ve said you can’t let her off - but if she has solid recall you can, you just need a bit of caution at the moment around other dogs.

They can be a bit upsell-y in approach but there’s a free podcast called ‘Sexier than a Squirrel’ and they do a lot of work with owners of reactive dogs, lots of training games and ‘inspiring optimism’. This blog explains the bucket theory:

absolute-dogs.com/blogs/news/massively-improve-your-dog-s-behaviour-lifespan-and-health-through-this-one-simple-change-and-guess-what-it-isn-t-a-pharmaceutical

But if her recall is good, you can let her off lead? Because you can just recall her before approaching any other dogs. You’ve said you can’t let her off - but if she has solid recall you can, you just need a bit of caution at the moment around other dogs
In theory, but what if an off leash dog comes bounding over to her and then chases after her as I’ve recalled her and she’s running to me?
When I was confident she’d do no more than be a bit growly and lip curly that very situation happened a few times and it was always maddening but ultimately no real harm done.

But I don’t trust her to just growl anymore.
I don’t know if she actually made contact with these dogs or not but even if she didn’t it was intense and really scary to see her like that.

What if she actually physically bites and injures someone’s dog?

You shout at the other owner to recall, and if they don’t then it’s unfortunate if your dog - who you’re responsibly recalling - tells them off.

But you’ve lost all confidence, which is why you need someone like a behaviourist to come on a walk with you.

Do read the bucket theory. It’s very likely that all the happy approaches have just led to your dog being overwhelmed. You said the other owner was unconcerned. It is possible you’ve overreacted a little.

You had previously been OK with walking her away from other dogs, and you said she improved. She’s not a lost cause, but you have to be invested in helping her.

If you can’t then yes, rehoming may be better for her but it may not. And you probably should then accept you shouldn’t have another dog. Only you know if that’s something that will be devastating for you.

I do get it - my dog is nowhere near perfect. But I think rehoming isn’t to be undertaken lightly in this scenario because you haven’t had any professional input at all, and that could transform your relationship with your dog.

I think you are over thinking it. It sounds like she was just telling the dogs off. It can sounds pretty dramatic sometimes. My jrt is extremely vocal - all mouth no action. If you recall and she comes, if a dog carries on chasing it's ok if she tells it off if she's unhappy about it. Just try and avoid as best you can, pop her on a lead in busy areas where there are dogs then let her off again once they are far enough away for her to ignore. If you are very stressed though and tense she will be picking up on that. Can dh take on more of the walking?

Whereabouts roughly are you, OP?

Why wont you consider putting a muzzle on her or say what breed she is op?

Using a muzzle would solve your problem. They arent mean. A lot of the time when the dog realises they can't bite it takes the stress out of the situation for them and they calm down.

If you used a muzzle you could let her off lead and she cant bite anyone. You get to walk among other owners and she gets to run around stress free. It'll be win win.

Is she a staffy op? Are you worried about people looking down on her and being prejudiced? (I'm not judging, we had a staffy and he was the most gentle dog ever. My reactive dog was a cane corso. My current dog with behaviour issues is a presa canaria).

If she has good recall, then you need to recall her away from other dogs, no matter what her body language looks like. If the other dog is out of control then ultimately that's the other owners' problem. That sounds harsh but it's the truth - if they can't recall their dog, their dog shouldn't be off the lead in the first place.

If you're afraid your dog will bite then put a muzzle on her. It's not a punishment - it's a precaution and ideally all dogs should be muzzle trained for emergency scenarios anyway. Lots of dogs get walked with muzzles for all sorts of reasons - they eat things they shouldn't, they're dogs with high prey drives, or, yes, they have the potential to be aggressive. Having a dog with a muzzle on isn't anything to be ashamed of - it shows you're being responsible.

I sympathise. I have a reactive dog and as a dog walker, I've walked reactive dogs. It's not fun but it sounds perfectly manageable to me. She doesn't sound like a horrible dog. She sounds like a reactive dog who's easily overwhelmed and you're just failing to spot the signs. I would just keep her away from other dogs. If she has good recall she can still run and play off the lead, just call her off other dogs. Reactive dogs don't need to play off lead with other dogs - it's clear it won't benefit her at all so I would just stop doing it.