I’ve had enough

[Hotchocolatewithcream]

I’m a regular poster but name changed.

I’m not sure what I am hoping to gain from this thread, just an outlet to talk/vent I suppose as I don’t really see a solution to the problem.

I feel that I have reached the end of the line with my dog, my patience has largely gone and I feel she would do much better with someone else.

I have said to DH today that I think I should contact some rescues and try to have her rehomed but he isn’t at all keen and thinks it’s a heat of the moment thing and I’ll feel differently later.
I’m not so sure.

In short, she is aggressive around other dogs.
It started roughly when she hit maturity, she’d had a number of negative experiences prior with other dogs but it was one particularly traumatic experience with other dogs that seemed to really trigger it and she was never the same with other dogs since.

I’ve always thought her behaviour was a direct response to her experiences and not genetic but I'm no longer so sure.
I did see her mother who was really lovely but I didn’t see what she was like around other dogs.

After the traumatic incident she started off growling when other dogs were nearby and if at the vet she would lunge at them aswell but that was the only place she’d lunge.
Any other time she’d just growl at them but only if they came close, otherwise she’d largely just ignore them.

From there it escalated, she started tensing up and giving out aggressive signals - direct stares, vertical tail etc as soon as she spotted another dog in the distance on lead.

Sometimes she’d greet another dog fine, other times she growl or lip curl and other owners kept assuring me it was fine, she was just setting boundaries, they needed telling off etc so I didn’t take much action believing it to be normal.

Eventually it became clear she had issue with pretty much all dogs for no easily identifiable reason and I sought help.

She got worse.

Eventually I gave up trying and kept her 100% leashed and well, well away from other dogs.

She got better in that she no longer reacted to the sight of others, she was non reactive around them but would growl at them if they tried to approach her so I started letting her off lead again and would recall her if other dogs were approaching her (she would never approach them)

Not ideal but I accepted some dogs just don’t really like others, she wasnt actively going after them or hurting them or anything so I didn’t consider her dangerous and it was easily manageable.

Recently I started giving her a supplement for anxious dogs and it had a miraculous effect.
Suddenly she was actively choosing to go and say hello to other dogs, choosing to walk with them with or without interaction.
Completely her decision with no influence from me, I would go to walk away from them and she would trot off to go join the dogs and I’d have to change direction and follow her.

I started to relax and actually enjoy my walks and she has been bouncier and more ‘carefree’ than normal.

Yesterday she had a great time.
We were out for hours, she made friends with a big, bouncy dog and greeted loads of others really nicely and walked very happily with them all.

Today.
We’d had a really lovely, long walk, she’d greeted a few dogs perfectly nicely and we came across a small group of fairly large but very calm dogs.

She went to approach them but then seemed to slow down and go a bit tense.
I recalled her and the other owner started telling me it was fine, her dogs were fine etc.
Mine then walked over and two of the other dogs came over to sniff her, she suddenly went for them.
I don’t mean a little growl or a lip curl I mean full on lunge forward snarling and snapping at their faces.
I don’t know if she made contact but it was incredibly loud and frantic and aggressive sounding, one of the other dogs yelped and she raced forward a few paces chasing the dog.

The owner couldn’t have been nicer, I was very upset and apologetic.
The dogs she’d gone for seemed utterly unconcerned about what had just happened but her behaviour has really shaken me.

I no longer feel it would be safe to have her off leash anymore as I don’t feel I can trust her anymore not to properly go for or hurt another dog.

I know she’ll be really upset as she hates being on lead, she lives for racing for miles, jumping over hedges, picking up branches and any old random junk and trotting around carrying them proudly.
She won’t be able to do any of that and I feel really guilty.

But I don’t feel I have any other option.

I feel like I’ve failed her and she needs a much more knowledgeable home with a more experienced owner.

The muzzle might help op relax a little as this could well be part of the problem. But it doesn't sound like ddog actually bites in the first place.

The muzzle might help op relax a little as this could well be part of the problem. But it doesn't sound like ddog actually bites in the first place.

This is true. They pick up so much from our energy, even when not on lead.

This is true. They pick up so much from our energy, even when not on lead.

And from our reaction to a situation, OP reacting in a stressed/panicked way to an incident will confirm to the dog that they were right to be afraid/stressed. In this case the other owner was completely unconcerned so it was likely she recognised it just a normal doggy tiff, but has been enforced as a negative event to pup which can cause spiralling behaviour. Not sir I'm explaining it well put loud but it has taken me a while to realise my vocal little dog is just that, so I do understand.

Why wont you consider putting a muzzle on her or say what breed she is op?
Because I have used a muzzle before when she was in her worst phase (after seeking help) and was tensing up at seeing dogs miles and miles away.
Ironic when you consider she had never at this point lunged at or chased after another dog.
People were visibly frightened at her being off leash while wearing a muzzle and I got many very disapproving looks.
It’s not an experience I am keen to repeat.

I won’t say her breed because although it’s unbelievably slim, I don’t want anyone to read and think I bet I know who that is!
I also feel a bit too fragile to listen/respond to the same inevitable comments I always hear if I reveal her breed.

I would just stop letting her interact with other dogs at all. Period. Reactive dogs simply don't need that kind of interaction.

She has good recall so let her off, but call her back and put her on a lead if you see another dog. It seems like a perfectly sensible solution to me. If other dogs are off-lead and out of control that's not your problem, frankly.

My dog wears a muzzle off lead because when she gets over excited she jumps and snaps /mouths at us. We are working on her self control but until then she is muzzled.

I worried about what other people thought, but actually the most common reason for muzzles is dogs eating stuff they shouldn't.

I know the feeling of crying after walks and feeling helpless. But you haven't tried even the basic stuff like a behaviourist. You can't rehome her because she isn't perfect. Like children, we get the dogs we get, not necessarily the ones we expect.

@vanillandhoney is correct , let her off but keep her away from other dogs , that’s what I do with mine because I can never be sure which ones he will take offence at so I prefer to isolate him unless it’s a friends dog that I know won’t upset him . There are lots of dogs that simply don’t like ‘playing’ with other dogs , it’s not compulsory .

I wouldn't give a toss what people thought of my dog wearing a muzzle. I'd do what was best for my dog.

After the incident in the op, it sounds like you need a muzzle or you need to keep on lead while you work with a behaviourist.

@Floralnomad I have to do this with people within a certain radius - dpup is great with other dogs and will ignore people 98% of the time, I have no way of predicting who the 2% will be that she will run up to and bark at or why she's picked them- for that reason it's proving tricky to train out so I just stay vigilant and calmly pop her on a lead and treat when I see people approaching too close.

Bless you op, reactive dogs are really hard and the reality is you'll be managing it forever.

I think you ought to keep ddog on a lead. Use clicker training and teach a really strong 'watch me' command to use when you're passing other dogs. A good book to read is Feisty fido. Consider getting a 'yellow dog' marker to show that you need space.

Maybe see if you can find one or two local dogs who type ddog will tolerate, who you can walk with and work up to off lead in a controlled environment ie fields where no one else is likely to pop up.

See if you can find a behaviourist who knows about reactive dogs. I can recommend someone in Gloucestershire if that's any use.

For what it's worth I don't think a more experienced owner would fare any differently.

I would also advocate a muzzle. They're no bother to the dog. And you won't have to worry so much which can take tension out of a situation, which is helpful in itself.

Ps my dog who was like this was a lurcher, whippet x boxer x collie. And my lurcher now who is greyhound mix is also not 100% having learnt from the 1st one.

She needs to be muzzled or on lead. If you don't and she hurts someone's dog or them when trying to get at the other dog, she WILL be put down if she has history for it. If she hurt my dog I'd be furious that you let her off, knowing she is aggressive. My little 5 year old niece often holds my dogs lead on walks, what if your dog knocked her down or hurt her, trying to lunge at my dog? You're being irresponsible refusing to keep her restrained or get her trained.

She needs to be muzzled or on lead. If you don't and she hurts someone's dog or them when trying to get at the other dog, she WILL be put down if she has history for it. If she hurt my dog I'd be furious that you let her off, knowing she is aggressive. My little 5 year old niece often holds my dogs lead on walks, what if your dog knocked her down or hurt her, trying to lunge at my dog? You're being irresponsible refusing to keep her restrained or get her trained
Thank you for that very supportive and not at all kicking someone once they are already down post

I actually think it highly unlikely much action would be taken if she bit another dog as dog on dog aggression is rarely taken seriously.
Though I would of course be liable and have to pay any vet fees.
She is not human aggressive in any way, shape or form.

I have said repeatedly she won’t be let off loose anymore because I don’t trust her anymore.

She hasn’t ever lunged at another dog apart from at the vets.
She has never, in the years I’ve had her lunged at another dog apart from the one incident this thread is about.

Have you checked if there's field around to hire ? We've had three pop us round us in the last few months.

It will be taken seriously. It was when my mum and I and our dogs (bichon and cane corso) were attacked by two dogs in a park.

The bichon nearly died and needed tons of stitches. My corso had a small cut to the inside of her back leg.

Our knees were ripped to shreds from getting on the floor to separate them and I got bitten on my finger and thumb. My mum got a tooth puncture on her leg. The only reason the dogs weren't put down was because we got injured in the scrum, rather than being attacked specifically and we didnt push for it.

So just because you think your dog isnt people aggressive, that doesnt mean people wont get hurt if your dog attacks. If my disabled sister had been with us, as she usually was, and she got knocked over into the fight the dogs could have killed her. The police definitely took it seriously, as did the RSPCA.

Just put a muzzle on her.

Im not muzzling her.
The rest of her life on lead is punishment enough, I’m not adding a muzzle on top.

But she doesnt need to spend the rest of her life on a lead, if you put the work in. Which it seems you are unprepared to do.

And if you introduce a muzzle correctly it's not a punishment. Same as a crate. Infact it could be kinder as it removes the stresses of the situation.

🙄

But she doesnt need to spend the rest of her life on a lead, if you put the work in. Which it seems you are unprepared to do
Please don’t.
I’ve spent years working on this dog’s reactivity.
I have sought professional help (more than once) before and I’m not willing to do it again because I’m tired of seeing her getting worse and I’m tired of seeing apparent improvement then incidents.

As far as I’m concerned she is unpredictable and will never be reliably safe around other dogs.
My trust in her is completely gone.
This incident alone to me, proves that no matter what her body language is like, no matter how friendly and relaxed she appears, she can’t be trusted.

So a behaviourist would be absolutely pointless because no matter what they said to me, I don’t trust her anymore and would never let her loose again.

And if you introduce a muzzle correctly it's not a punishment. Same as a crate. Infact it could be kinder as it removes the stresses of the situation
I’m not doing it.
I’ve done it before (with treats) and she hated it.
She already hates being on lead, I’m not putting another thing she hates (a muzzle) on top.
That combined with people’s reactions, I’m not doing it.

I do think I am the wrong owner for her and she’d do better with someone more experienced but DH pretty much shut down the conversation about rehoming her so she’s left on lead for the rest of her days then I’ll never get another dog when she goes.

I’m not coming back on this thread, that isn’t an attack on you BoudiccaD or anyone else, we are all entitled to our own opinions and beliefs.
I just feel so phenomenally fed up and depressed about it all, this has been a problem for years and I feel she has crossed the line now from me not believing she would ever do any harm to me being fearful that she actually could cause harm.
I don’t have the energy or strength at the minute for any negative viewpoints.
Not your issue, it’s mine.
I’m just not up to it at the minute.

I don’t think you have failed her at all. It sounds like she had too much contact over a short period of time. I don’t think it would mean she will never be able to greet other dogs.

You are making this all about you and not about her.

Are you using a long lead, not retractable?. You can get really long tracking type of leads, dogs still get a good sniff and walk, just reel the dog in when other dogs are around. Worth asking around locally if anyone has field you could use.

On the chance you’re still reading, OP, if you don’t trust her and your DH won’t hear of rehoming her then HE needs to walk her and work with the behaviourist.

From what you’ve said, she’s not as bad as you think.

She was tense on lead around other dogs, but improved when you took the stress out of the situation by walking her away from other dogs. She has excellent recall that you feel is 100%. These are brilliant indicators that she can be a happy dog off lead.

You didn’t say early in the thread that you’d had professional advice. A behaviourist will improve your confidence in the dog. But if you won’t do it, and your DH won’t regime, then HE takes responsibility for the dog.

I assume she’s a shepherd breed, perhaps?

I hope you feel calmer tomorrow

@MotherForker, I don’t think that is very kind. The OP has sought help and tried to work through this for some time.
I think you may feel differently in a few weeks, OP. Don’t make any snap decisions while you are emotional. Can your husband take her for walks to give you a break?

You can get her to tolerate a muzzle, it will just take time and effort.

Or if you wont make any effort, take her for off lead exercise at 1 or 2am when theres no one else there and just for a couple short lead walks in the day.