I'd like to breed from my golden retriever bitch.

[thicketofstars]

I have a six year golden retriever bitch. She is, and has always been, perfect in every way. We would like to breed from her and have a few questions for the mumsnet gurus...

1. She was KC registered as a puppy by the breeder. We never completed the transfer of ownership form until tonight, when I completed it online. Although I haven't received a letter of confirmation yet, the process appeared to go through smoothly. HOWEVER, there was a note at the bottom of the page saying 'This service is only available for dogs registered after 7th of July 2008.' My dog was born on 19th of April, 2008 and was already registered by the time we bought her on 12th of June. Does anyone know anything about this or how long we can expect to wait for confirmation?
2. We have put the wheels in motion for the recommended eye and hip tests. We understand this is mandatory to be an assured breeder. We will be going ahead with these tests anyway but are confused about whether they are obligatory to be able to register the litter?
3. Does anyone know the wait period between getting the X rays done and receiving the official score?
4. We are not breeding for the money but because we believe our dog is one in a million. However, we understand that the price for a service (is that how the term is used??) is the cost of one puppy. What does a retriever puppy sell for at the moment?
5. We're having difficulty tracking down a retriever stud dog close to where we live. We've looked at the KC register and 'champdog'. Are we missing any other key websites?

Thanks so much and sorry for the length of this post!

Question 3 refers to the official hip score, sorry it's unclear.

Why?

Don't you love your dog?

I have no idea why you would want to do this

Agree with Eve. 6 years is quite old for a first litter. Having a litter IMO does 'age' the bitch somewhat, and there are risks involved,

Yep. Because we really need more dogs

I take you already have homes lined up for the pups?

Are you a professional dog breeder? No? Then don't breed from your bitch. End of.

I would suggest you get your dog spayed to give the thousands of dogs languishing, suffering and dying in Rescues and Pounds a chance.

I would suggest you find a more worthwhile employment other than being the lowest of the low and becoming a Backyard Breeder.

I would suggest you show your dog that you love and cherish her and get her spayed, rather than let her be shagged and damaged and possibly killed just so you can bring yet another litter of puppies into an already overpopulated country.

Your dog is already at risk of mammary tumours because you have failed to spay her. She is too old to breed. Rescue centres are full of ex breeding dogs of 4, 5 and 6. Dumped by their scumbag backyard breeder owners because they are too old and too shagged out to be useful any more. Do you really want to be like them?

Don't breed. It's wrong.

There are places in the US that clone pets if you're that desperate to reproduce your dog. There's also a dog's home burning to the ground in Manchester full of animals unwanted, most likely because of irresponsible breeding. Please don't do it.

Have you ever actually read any posts on Mumsnet about dogs, ever?

Because this maybe the most badly placed post in the history of badly placed posts. They are going to rip you to SHREDS.

This has made me really cross. If your dog is so lovely, just enjoy her. Leave her alone and let her live a peaceful life. Have her spayed for her own health and put this ridiculous idea out of your head.

There is a very high incidence of Caesarian section in maiden bitches over 6 years of age. Think long and hard about whether this is the best thing for her.

Retrievers have loads of puppies. A friend if mine's had 9 luckily she's a professional, shows them etc and had a waiting list

I'd echo what others have said, 6 is too old. Even puppy farms retire their bitches at that age, hence the number of them on sites like many tears

She's at real risk of Pyometra too as an unneutered female. Horrid illness.

Don't. Just don't. For all the reasons above.

For started 6 years old is very much on the old side for a first litter, most good breeders I know would say far too old especially for a dog of that size.

Age aside......

We all think our dogs are one in a million but unfortunately that's not really reason enough to breed. Has she been worked? Shown? Competed in some other sphere? Do you have any kind of external evaluation of her at all? What does she have to offer the breed? There is certainly no shortage of GRs, there were over 7000 registered with the KC last year alone, there will have been countless puppy farm and BYB litters on top of that. Other than being a nice dog is she really exceptional enough to add yet more dogs to those already being bred?

As well as hips and eyes GRs need their elbows scoring and there are also several DNA tests which should be done. Health tests aren't obligatory to register a litter but they are absolutely necessary from an ethical point of view. However they're also not the be all and end all of being a decent breeder.

Are you confident in your ability to objectively evaluate her conformation and pick a stud which would compliment her and hopefully improve upon her weaknesses? Give up on the idea of finding a local stud, it's not impossible but it's unlikely that the best possible match for her (in conformation, temperament, breeding lines, health test results, etc.) will be just down the road. You may well need to travel to find the right stud.

Does her breeder know your plans? Had she placed any endorsements on your bitch when she was registered? Do you have a breeding mentor who would be able to guide you through the process?

Breeding is not risk free, you could potentially lose the bitch, the pups or both. Could you afford an emergency c-section if it was necessary? Normal pet insurance very rarely (if ever) covers breeding expenses.

To be honest the vast majority of that is irrelevant. At six years old your bitch is too old to have her first litter. If you think she's fabulous and want another like her then find a puppy from the same/similar lines.

Wow, that's a lot of attitude! I asked for information, not opinions!

Of course I love my dog. What a question! We would ideally have breed from her earlier, but for various reasons it wasn't possible. Having spent the summer preventing her from carrying baby hedgehogs about the garden, we're in no doubt that she'd like to have this experience. Breeding from a dog is not necessarily a careless or unloving act.

Why shouldn't a careful dog owner breed from a KC registered dog using a stud that has been checked against my bitch's pedigree and having completed all health checks? I cannot see how this experience could be improved upon by a professional breeder. Since the 4 litter limit there are relatively few of those around and it's not 'professional' in the sense that they are qualified in any way. If it's just a matter of inexperience, every breeder has to begin somewhere - and following guidelines carefully is a good place to start.

No, I don't have homes already lined up for the puppies! Don't be ridiculous! However, I don't anticipate a problem given supply and demand for KC registered puppies of this breed in my area (not mainland England). My dog is a parenting companion dog and is probably the most well known and well loved dog in the area.

Any knowledgeable information out there? I won't continue to respond to cryptic one-liners.

I thought I might be helpful, rather than just say NO DON'T DO IT because, having looked at other threads, your immediate reaction is likely to be defensive and refuse to listen (I apologise if this is not true).

First of all, 6 years old is too old for a first litter. It really is. In human years your dog is around 42? However if your dog's welfare is not at the forefront of your mind...

You need to hip score and eye test. You can register the litter without them, but not as an accredited breeder. I don't know why you would not do these, however, because it is providing the puppies you breed with the best chance in life. You also need to elbow score, which is just as important as hip or eyes. Yes it does get costly.

Your focus for a stud dog should not be on geographical location, but on a dog that compliments your bitch. You need to know your dogs faults in order to try and find a dog who can improve on these. Does your bitch have solid angles? How is her movement?

Breeding is not something easy to do just because you want a dog similar to your own. It's costly, in time as well as money, it's emotional and it's incredibly hard. You would find it far easier, and it would be far kinder on your (getting on a bit) bitch, if you considered buying another puppy from the breeder of your current dog, or from similar lines. You could also consider rescuing one of the hundreds of thousands of dogs in rescue centres across the country.

HTH.

Sorry but you don't seem like you have enough knowledge to consider this. And your dog is too old

There's a lot of knowledgable information been given

you really need to know about Pyometra it's very common in un neutered, middle aged bitches and often fatal

Op you won't get the answers to your questions here. Mumsnet is anti puppies.

Your dog is too old. If you really love her and think she's one in a million please consider getting her spayed - friends dog died recently of pyometra. Very nasty and very sad for the whole family.

Last year, 7,117 Golden Retriever pups were registered in the UK. (source - KC breed statistics). Do we honestly need more?

She is too old, and is at high risk for pyo by being unspayed.

If she truly is one in a million, then keep her that way and don't breed from her. You will be endangering her life, her health and adding to the problem in this country of too many dogs chasing not enough homes.

Enjoy your beautiful girl tonight, and spare a thought for the poor souls in Manchester Dogs Home who lost their lives in a horrible fire, for no other reason that they were unwanted, mainly due to the dimwitted shortsighted fuckwittery of breeders who don't think through the consequences of their actions.