I'd like to breed from my golden retriever bitch.

[thicketofstars]

I have a six year golden retriever bitch. She is, and has always been, perfect in every way. We would like to breed from her and have a few questions for the mumsnet gurus...

1. She was KC registered as a puppy by the breeder. We never completed the transfer of ownership form until tonight, when I completed it online. Although I haven't received a letter of confirmation yet, the process appeared to go through smoothly. HOWEVER, there was a note at the bottom of the page saying 'This service is only available for dogs registered after 7th of July 2008.' My dog was born on 19th of April, 2008 and was already registered by the time we bought her on 12th of June. Does anyone know anything about this or how long we can expect to wait for confirmation?
2. We have put the wheels in motion for the recommended eye and hip tests. We understand this is mandatory to be an assured breeder. We will be going ahead with these tests anyway but are confused about whether they are obligatory to be able to register the litter?
3. Does anyone know the wait period between getting the X rays done and receiving the official score?
4. We are not breeding for the money but because we believe our dog is one in a million. However, we understand that the price for a service (is that how the term is used??) is the cost of one puppy. What does a retriever puppy sell for at the moment?
5. We're having difficulty tracking down a retriever stud dog close to where we live. We've looked at the KC register and 'champdog'. Are we missing any other key websites?

Thanks so much and sorry for the length of this post!

[tabulahrasa]

"I asked for advice to specific questions, none of which have been answered. I didn't invite general advice at all and I certainly didn't invite abuse."

No, but you asked questions showing a real lack of basic knowledge and so it seemed prudent to tell you that your bitch is too old.

[thicketofstars]

SignYourNameInBrownAndFlame That sounds sane, thank you. My dog is the show type. I haven't shown her and won't be showing her - it wouldn't be possible. But if an independent assessment has indicated she has good conformation and everything else is a green light, I think there's enough there to move forward with.

As unpopular a view as it is on here I believe it is possible to a responsible and ethical breeder
That's why my specific questions haven't been answered. In the unlikely event that dog breeders frequent mumsnet, they would have known better than to admit it.

I appreciate the concern for my dog but I'll be sticking with the vet's opinion.

I appreciate the reasonable advice from a few and will use it to inform a conversation with my dog's vet next week. Let's leave it now as I have enough to be going on with.

[thicketofstars]

Oh dry up hoobypickypicky. This party ended a while ago and I'm signing off.

[hoobypickypicky]

There is, or was, a very responsible and well regarded breeder of Goldies on MN Doghouse. Her name is/was Midori. You may like to advance search her posts on breeding. She's well respected and liked on here.

I feel that she would be giving you similar advice to most of the other posters tonight.

[hoobypickypicky]

So you don't like what you've heard and are resorting to rudeness and flouncing OP? Which of us does that say more about?

[thicketofstars]

Midori. I'll have a look. It's not the advice hooby, it's the militant tone (and your own inaccurate reading of my post). But please...go away. The advice has all been given and doesn't need you seconding it.

[SignYourNameInBrownAndFlame]

OP, many of us give freely of our time and money to help the lot of dogs who have ended up in rescue. Many of those dogs were originally bred by well-meaning but inexperienced breeders who have ended up adding to the ever-growing number of unwanted puppies. Are you really surprised that a group of dog lovers feel so strongly about the prospect of more of the same?

You can do the thing properly or you can do the thing easily. You've been given some very useful, important advice on how to do it properly, and why. Unfortunately your defensivesness and unwillingness to listen to this advice does not paint you in a good light as someone prepared to learn about the process of breeding responsibly, and willingness to learn and to accept the guidance of those more experienced is an absolutely vital first step on the road to becoming a good breeder.

I'm sure your bitch is wonderful. But she is not the right foundation bitch for a kennel of quality GRs. She may have been, 2-4 years ago. Not now.

And YY to all the points hooby made.

[thicketofstars]

No, you're the flouncer! I'll take, I'll raise, I'll back...did you think you were in parliament?! As for rudeness, that's the rudest I've got and it's on the back of a whole heap of abuse, all of which you and many others seem to have relished. So tootle off.

[thicketofstars]

Signyourname Ha, defensiveness! That's hilarious, have you actually read the thread? You try receiving unsolicited abuse and see how receptive to learning you feel generally, especially if the questions asked have been ignored and no/few dog breeders appear to be present. However, I'm not in the habit of throwing out possible knowledge simply because I don't like the context. What I don't feel obligated to do is tug my forelock. Now the advice has pretty much played itself out. Let's leave the extrapolations about my character and go to bed.

[hoobypickypicky]

This is a public forum. I don't go away on your say so OP.

I note that you've researched how many litters you're allowed to have in any 12 month period for purposes of environmental health registration as a breeder (with all the inspections and implications that entails) but that you don't know whether the tests for health are necessary. I conclude that you've researched for your own benefit but not for that of your six year old bitch.

I will point out that any income made from breeding dogs must by law be made available to the tax office.

[Spadequeen]

You haven't responded to many posters concerns that your dog is too old for her first litter

[Mmmnotsure]

The vet has said she's a perfect example of the breed and we wouldn't dream of going against her advice regarding breeding from her.

OP I am interested in this as I have both GRs and a vet in the family.

Are you actually saying that a qualified vet has advised you to breed a first litter from a six-year-old GR bitch?

[queenofwesteros]

I've had Goldies for the last 16 years. Your bitch is too old for a litter, especially a first, and you would be putting her at great risk by breeding her now. Everything else is irrelevant really. If you really loved her, you wouldn't put her through this.

[SignYourNameInBrownAndFlame]

OK OP, as you won't listen to us I suggest you set up a log-in for the Champdogs breeding forum, which is populated by some of the most experienced and responsible breeders in the country, and ask your questions there. Be sure to mention the age of your bitch and the fact this would be her first litter, as that is pertinent information.

Champdogs breeding forum

[VetNurse]

I reckon this thread is a wind up....

[GobblersKnob]

The most important bit of information that you have been given is that your bitch is too old for a litter and stands a higher that average risk of complications or dying, but you intend to carry on regardless.

And you say you love your dog?

[MothershipG]

An ethical breeder accepts responsibility for every puppy they breed for their whole lives.

Your dog will have to undergo a general anaesthetic in order to be hip scored, no responsible stud dog owner will allow their dog to mate with a 6 year old bitch, all the risks of pregnancy are higher for a bitch of this age. None of this is going to be cheap and if you get lucky and everything goes to plan you may not be able to find homes for all the puppies.

You obviously adore your girl please don't put her at risk like this.

[HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen]

For such a vocal lot, you have remarkably little knowledge between you. Or perhaps you did know the answers to my questions but simply chose not to oblige.

Because of course, smart people when choosing to breed their dog, ignore all the specialist websites and forums, and choose to seek advice on a Parenting Chat board?

[AShynessThatIsCriminallyVulgar]

EveDallasRetd Thu 11-Sep-14 22:35:30

I would suggest you get your dog spayed to give the thousands of dogs languishing, suffering and dying in Rescues and Pounds a chance.

^^ This.

This morning's news has me bawling my eyes out.

[ChuckitintheBucket]

You have not addressed the issue of your dog's age ie. She is too old.

[flanjabelle]

I'm in the process of adopting a rescue staffie girl so have been trawling the rescues looking through the hundreds of dogs unwanted in just my local area. Perhaps you could take a look before you decide to bring more puppies into the world. It's just not necessary.

[francesdrake]

I don't breed dogs myself but my dogsitter is one of the top breeders in her particular group in the country. I've seen what's involved. And I second signyourname and her eminently reasonable advice: register on Champdogs and ask for guidance about having a litter from a 6-year-old maiden bitch.

I'm not making any other judgement or comment - just that it doesn't seem as if you've got a full range of information about this yet, and maybe with that information, you may think differently.

[momnipotent]

EveDallas has summed up my thoughts completely.

People like the OP disgust me.

[mrslaughan]

I will second that she is too old and at high risk of life threatening complications.

Also do you realise what is involved with having puppies - the work involved? that you basically need to give up sleep for the first 6 weeks.

Do you know anything about bottle feeding or supplementary feeding?

Do you know any first aid - how to resuscitate a puppy?

the list is endless.........I don't breed, but am very close to our breeder, and to be honest it is such hard work, and you risk loosing a beloved family pet.

[DwellsUndertheSink]

my parents have been byb of goldies for 30 years, only have one bitch at a time though, so probably have had 7 or so litters in that time?

First two litters from their own dog, a beautiful handsome boy who came from a "professional breeder" (ie a puppy farm) with a smart pedigree and great conformation. He was a little highly strung, but made gorgeous pups. At age 5-6, he got out the house and ripped apart a small pomeranian down the road. Foolishly, my parents kept him. 6-7 months later, he attacked a child. He was PTS the same day.

So you cannot necessarily tell who is good and who is a bad breeder. But there were two litters out there with his genes and temperament. The bitch was as gentle as can be, so hopefully none of his progeny went on to be highly strung. BUt how can you tell if you dont have lineage/breed history? Have you checked out her litter mate's scores, seen whether or not any of them have done well in the show ring or on the gundog circuit? Have you checked with the breeder, to see if any health issues have come up in their line?

I would concur with others that 6 is too old for breeding. Especially if you haven't had all the tests done. We considered breeding our own 2yo goldie, but as her hip scores were less than optimum, and she is not a working dog where hip scores are secondary, we decided to have her spayed. No point in perpetuating dodgy hips, no matter how wonderful the animal.

From our research, the breed standard says that hip score up to 50 are ok, I believe, but really you want hip scores much, MUCH lower. Working gundogs are usually in the 20s, show dogs are usually single digits or early teens. CHeck out her litter mate scores - I think the kennel club has them online - and see how they scored.

Hip scores should be done at about a year, so their hips are in their prime condition. By 6, she'll have some wear and tear, especially if she is an active girl. People looking for a good retriever will look at her scores and make decisions based on those numbers - we would never choose a pup from a dam with poor hip scores, having had a retriever with bad hips and seen her suffer in older age.

Please think carefully about what you are doing and do it for the best reasons.