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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Not sure I can do this anymore (please don't flame me) (long)

445 replies

Solo2 · 02/03/2012 10:30

I don't think I can do this....I've been up the entire night with Rollo (1 yr old golden retriever) who has developed diarrhoea - again.

Anyone who know his history, will be aware that he had this recurrently for about 5 months, where each time he came off antibiotics, he got ill again. I spent nights and days hosing the lawn and kitchen, had no sleep, could never ignore him of he howled at night, as it usually meant he needed to poo...I spent about £2,000 on vet/ vet hospital fees.

I've found it SO stressful having a dog that even when he's not been ill and has withdrawn from medications and now off everything for about 1.5 months, it's been really difficult. I am constantly torn between Rollo's needs and my children's needs and am massively more stressed than I've ever been and a massively worse mother (solo mum) than I've ever been.

Latterly, Rollo hasn't been able to go off-lead as he discovered hunting and won't come back when called. I'm working on this. I've decreased my self-employed earnings to free up enough hrs in the day to do dog walks and training. I pay vast amounts at w/es and school hols to have the dog looked after by his lovely trainer, so that I can focus on the DCs and keep - barely - on top of household tasks and business paperwork.

However committed I am, I did say to myself that, if Rollo got diarrhoea again, I'd have to rehome him. I'm not sure it's fair on my DCS NOT to rehome him really, as I can't give them what they need and give Rollo also what he needs. I feel despairing.

I signed a contract with the breeder that she'd be informed and have a say in rehoming but my DCs - who keep definitely WANTING to rehome him (they have nothing to do with him at all and never really wanted him) and definitely NOT wanting to rehome him, think they could live with him being rehomed near to us where we could still see him.

I'd LOVE my dog trainer to have him - IF she could/would (she has 3 dogs of her own and lives in a tiny flat but she's known Rollo since he was 7 weeks old and often has him to stay). However, I haven't even approached her about this yet. She was supposed to have him this w/e but obviously can't/won't given he's ill and I've NO idea how to manage the w/e (I'm working Sat. am anyway) and have a sick dog and the DCs too...

She would be brilliant at knowing who locally could have him BUT I'm supposed to do this through the breeder who isn't local to us and hasn't had any contact with us/ Rollo, except an email or two when he was v sick some months ago.

I'm torn apart...I know I'm writing after a night without sleep and with a full day of work and dog-poo mopping ahead but...it's not really working is it? I know many of you will be totally aghast at my thoughts on re-homing and I always believed I could MAKE this work for us and waited a lifetime for a dog but...I really don't think I can go on.

I am barely managing when Rollo isn't ill. I must have now spent around £6,000+ in total on him in the last 11 months and LOST income because of having him too. If I didn't have DCs, I could manage. I'm not sure it's fair on the DCs to keep him, even IF they never forgive me for re-homing him.

Not sure what else to say really and am fully aware that many of you will find it appalling that I'm considering rehoming at a time when so many dogs are rehomed (1 yr+ old). He's got a lovely temperament and I'm told by other dog owners that he's 'easy' , except for the tummy trouble.

Have no idea why he's ill as he wears a muzzle ALL the time we're out and about, never eats anything at all other than his Royal Canin Sensitivity kibble (I am literally obsessive at monitoring him) and was fine on that for over a month and on NO medication. He's even had less contact with other dogs than normal, since I've had to keep him to on-lead walks....I think it must be the underlying condition returning.

Have a vet appointment later today (which also means paying for an after school facility for my DCs) as they can't fit me in earlier....

That's where I am today, after a night up and a future streching out before me
that just feels impossible Sad

OP posts:
momnipotent · 02/03/2012 22:22

This was a website recommended to me by our vet:

www.rawmeatybones.com/

Faverolles · 02/03/2012 22:22

If it's the kibble making him sick (and I think many chronic conditions can be due to intolerance/allergy), trying a raw diet may be the only thing that helps, so would be a risk worth taking.

feesh · 02/03/2012 22:29

Can anyone recommend a pro-raw vet in Solo2's area who she could maybe see for a final opinion? I really think trying raw might just be the solution here.

D0oinMeCleanin · 02/03/2012 22:31

Locknumbernine, speaks sense.

Solo, if you are too nervous to give raw a go would you feel able to try Nature Diet? It contains only what barf would but is lightly cooked and pre prepared.

It all sounds very sad and stressful but I have to agree with posters who think you are making it worse than it needs to be. What support do you have with rollo? Does dh help? Do you think a trip to the gp for yourself might be in order?

BehindLockNumberNine · 02/03/2012 22:34

momnipotent do we have the same vet?? That is the same website he told me to read.
And he said to start with chicken and build up from there.
He said to avoid pork.
He said raw fish is good, especially white fish.

Don't know solo's area. Other problem is that many vets are not openly going to advertise as being pro-raw as the veterinary industry is for a large part sponsored by dog food manufacturers. Hence the heavy pushing by vets for commercial diets....

But if Solo googled 'holistic vets' she will more than likely find a pro-raw one...

swallowedAfly · 02/03/2012 22:36

i've given my lab steamed white fish when she's had a bad stomach - likewise the cat. what is the benefit of raw over lightly cooked then? is it this enzyme business?

BehindLockNumberNine · 02/03/2012 22:38

Thank you coca and d0oin. Have been researching raw (and asking on here) for a few weeks as I am going to move Sam to raw. Everything I read convinces me it is the best for him. Luckily my vet agrees so I feel happy doing this.

I can see why it must be scary for Solo to go against the vet's advice, but seeing as the different vets she has seen can't even seem to agree on the cause for Rollo's illness I would take their opinion with a pinch of salt.

momnipotent · 02/03/2012 22:38

I was told (or read somewhere? can't remember) that fish needed to be slightly cooked but other meat was ok raw.

ceres · 02/03/2012 22:39

i don't feed raw, i used to feed nature diet but switched to nature's harvest as was having some quality issues with nature diet.

a good teaspoon of slippery elm powder mixed with a good splosh of boiling water and the resulting gloop mixed through his food.

if his tummy shows any signs of playing up (we know the signs well!) we up the slippery elm to twice a day.

BehindLockNumberNine · 02/03/2012 22:41

Yes swallowed, I think the less cooked the food, the more of these beneficial enzymes are present.

ExitPursuedByaBear · 02/03/2012 22:42

Poor you, poor DCs, poor dog. It all sounds dreadful. I would go with rehoming - ignore the breeder and go with a breed rescue, for all your sakes.

Coca · 02/03/2012 22:42

My vet is anti raw so I just smile when she compliments my boy's shiney coat, healthy weight and general well being. It was his trainer that recomended RAW feeding and she hasn't been wrong about anyting about him. Vets get paid to reccomend branded food.

Abra1d · 02/03/2012 22:42

I second Orijen food. It is a very low grain kibble and very good quality ingredients. I wouldn't touch another kibble. Most of them are awful.

differentnameforthis · 03/03/2012 02:57

The breeder was pretty useless last year when I contacted her about Rollo's diarrhoea. She failed to get back to me for ages and then sent me some quotes from a forum that all suggested it was food allergy or a virus and the vet school had said it was v unlikely and more likely an underlying systemic stomach problem. She then stopped replying to my emails, even updates on Rollo

Well, definitely DO NOT give him back to her, please! She obviously can't really be bothered about Rollo, as she has stopped contact. That says to me that she will either PTS, sell hinm to some otehr unsuspecting bugger, or send him to a re-homing centre, where this cycle will keep going.

I also CAN NOT believe that you are refusing to listen the posts here. I have seen one of your previous threads, with posters all giving you advice & recommending the RAW diet. Yet, you STILL refuse to try it. Why? It really does sound like your poor dog couldn't get any worse from it. It does sound to me like allergies, tbh. That is just my gut talking, I have no real experience. It sounds like as soon as his body clears the antibiotics, the allergens start building again, eventually leading to this episode where you are now.

Even in the Royal Canin food there are allergens. The crap they put in some dry food is beyond belief & in your position, I would not hesitate to just try one last thing!

I really don't think you have tried everything unless you do, tbh. Although, I do feel you are looking for an out, rather a solution that helps Rollo stay with you. You admit that you don't have time for him, but would you if he were not ill? Is it simply that perhaps in trying the RAW diet, if he gets better, you can't justify then not wanting him? I.e, if he gets better on it, you don't have an excuse to hand him back!

Sad for that poor dog! One simple change that may change his life. If it doesn't, you still be any worse off, will you?

PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling · 03/03/2012 03:43

Solo, so sorry to hear you're still struggling. Have lost track of what food rolo is on now? Our pup had recurring tummy issues for over a year and having read around and taken lots of the advice on here I was adamant that no vet-recommended kibble was going to sort it. My husband took him to the vets for one of his regular B12 jabs and, not knowing this, came back with sacks of Hills ZD, hypoalllergenic food. He's a different dog, firm poos 80-90% of the time, and if something does trigger the shits he can recover from it, particularly in conjunction with a b12 top up. It's now eminently manageable in a way it never was before. Worth a shot?

saffronwblue · 03/03/2012 06:13

Solo what a tough time you have had. Good luck with whatever you decide to do next. Hope you have had some sleep and Rollo has brightened up.

Solo2 · 03/03/2012 07:16

After a good night's sleep, have woken to clearer thinking. It's amazing what sleep can do! I can see this has provoked a discussion about raw food diet.

I was all ready to give this a try and thought it might help massively with Rollo's desire to chew everything. You can imagine how hard this might be to follow through, though, given every vet I spoke to about it, including at a vet teaching hospital, was aghast and felt it'd make Rollo much much more ill. They were all of the opinion that the bacteria in raw food would exacerbate Rollo's problems and make him suffer even more.

So whilst I can't rule it out, given the weight of opinion on here, I also feel worried about giving it a try, if the vets are saying please, please DON'T. Your dog will become even more ill.

The PTS comment that the vet made was NOT a recommendation to follow through but rather a possible final option, if Rollo continued to suffer. She was looking at him as he lay on the floor, panting, distressed, semi-conscious. She knows we've been here many times before.

I can't understand why some of the replies here are suggesting I'm making this harder than it needs to be? I'm bending over backwards, trying to make it all work and doing everything in my power to continue to keep Rollo and keep my DCs lives going along smoothly. Incidentally, there is no ex (solo by choice), no family and all help I've ever had has to be paid for. So it really is down to me, my earning capacity, my ability to be everything to everyone!

Minimuu, DT2 hasn't 'got over' the trauma of facing the possible loss of his one hol. a yr - which did indeed go ahead - because he has Asperger's traits and thing like this haunt him obsessively. He asks daily about Rollo's quality and number of poos and is hypervigilant about Rollo becoming ill. Every single morning, DT2's first words to me are, "Did the dog wake you? Has he got diarrhoea?" He is completely panicked by this and the impact it has had on the family. He has a lot of obsessive worries because of his condition. It's probably difficult to imagine what having a child like this is like, unless you have one similar yourself.

It's in this context that I'm trying to reduce the effect Rollo's recurrent illness has on my DCs and family life. That's why I'm up in the night, in the garden with Rollo having diarrhoea. Otherwise Rollo - who is brilliantly toilet trained - lets me know he needs to go out - thus waking the DTs.

If I sound stressed, it's because there's only me here to run the family, generate and earn an income to look after that family - dog and cats included - and only a certain number of hrs in the day and night to do everything for everyone all the time.

I imagined having a dog would mean a lot of initial hard work but also so much pleasure. I hadn't factored in the ongoing impact of losing 3 to 4 hrs a day of time, for Rollo's needs instead of to work/look after DCs and the home and the business etc. I'd just seem myself enjoying country walks, getting physically fit. I knew dog's got ill but i hadn't imagined that after researching a good breeder, getting a recommendation etc, that we'd end up with the ONLY puppy out of the 19 born, who has stomach problems!

I will see what the vet says today. It's a different one on duty but I may not even get to speak to her directly as I'm working this morning and will probably have to speak to one of the nurses instead and get info. second hand. The vet will have closed when I end work today and I'm not sure then whether I can go and collect Rollo (if they'll let him out) from the nurses and whatever meds. they give him this time- or if they'll keep him in or what.

I have had a determination to make this work and to continue my responsibility to Rollo for the whole year we've had him. I've spent thousands of pounds on vet bills, training, one to one and classes, equipment etc and hours and hours looking after him, walking him, training him, getting up inthe night with him. I've never been one to give up. I do know though that my DCs are suffering and that I HAVE to put them first. If there is a solution, then I'll keep looking for it. But I can't keep spending so much money.

I'm definitely open to trying raw food but I'm also apprehensive that it'll make Rollo even more ill and in pain in his stomach, as every vet has told me.

How can anyone predict what having a dog will be like, until they've had one? I imagined that I could balance the dog's needs with everyone else's needs and the fact that I run my own business and work from home, made me belive that I could arrange things to fit a dog in too. Other people seem to make it work, so why couldn't I? I hadn't expected to get a chronically sick dog, as I'd only targeted recommended breeders who had a healthy line of dogs.

I DID probably expect too much of myself, as a single mum with no other adult back-up in my life. I am trying to be everything for everyone - the only wage earner, the accountant, secretary/admin. person/ the 'domestic goddess'!/cleaner/housekeeper - the only parent in my DCs lives (and no grandparents etc for them either). I know lots of other people do this every day too and lots of other people have dogs added to the equation. So I assume it can work. Or do other people have an ex or an OH or a mum or a sister/aunt or another source of income ? I don't know...

Anyway, I appreciate that strong feelings are raised by my OP and reiterate that I'm still doing everything I can to find a happy solution for us all. I haven't given up on Rollo at all. I'm just not sure yet how to make it work for everyone, given his health issues and my life's demands.

OP posts:
slinkyboo · 03/03/2012 07:35

I think you've had some really harsh replies, Solo. It is perfectly clear that you have bent over backwards for this dog, and that you love him, but sometimes a line has to be drawn. It's so easy to 'judge' but no one else on this thread is in your exact same position - although they may sit and type their judgemental posts.
You don't need to explain yourself. I am amazed by how much you have on your plate. Again, I hope a good solution can be found...you HAVE done your best. I can also empathise with your reluctance to try raw, when all the many varied veterinary professionals have warned you off it FOR THIS SPECIFIC DOG. Again, rollo is unique and it's not 'one size fits all'.

I hope you can have a good chat with your trainer as she sounds very helpful & knowledgable. Good luck solo Smile

3cutedarlings · 03/03/2012 09:01

I understand why you you would apprehensive trying him on Raw, however the food suggested by your vets also isnt doing its job either, is it?, at the point your at now i honestly do not see what you have to lose by trying it.

You can't re home him with the current issues, no rescue would have the funds needed to get him right and is it actually fair to pass on your problems to them?, same with re homing privately, no one is going to take on a dog that has cost its owner thousands are they?

I seriously do not think re homing him is an option for you. I think you need to either commit to finding a way to make this work by either spending the thousands needed for more tests, or taking things in your own hands and trying other alternatives or have him PTS.

You said in you last post that Rolo take 3/4 hours a day of your time, i take it this is when he's ill? I have a lab that is just slightly older than Rolo he takes about 1.5 hours of my time per day, thats an hours walk in the morning (tho sometimes he might not get out til the afternoon, he fits in with me and doesnt have set times for walks) and half hour (ish) in the evening, the rest of his time is either spent eating, sleeping or just plodding around the house/garden.

ceres · 03/03/2012 09:19

solo -

i have advised you many times, over the last year or so, to try slippery elm powder whish is cheap, easily available and totally safe. other people have posted to say that slippery elm has worked for their dogs with tummy problems.

i understand that you are reluctant to try a raw diet. i myself don't feed raw (not that i am against it, it's just not for me). i feed a good quality wet food (nature's harvest, similar to nature diet - high meat content, veg and rice) and use slippery elm once daily, upping the dose if his stomach plays up.

you keep saying you have tried everything and can't keep throwing money at the problem, and that the vets are against raw feeding.

slippery elm could make a huge difference to rollo's quality of life, and yours, yet you keep totally ignoring all advice about it.

i really don't understand why. all i can do is urge you, one last time, to please try slippery elm powder.

have a google - it is TOTALLY safe for humans and dogs. i mix a good teaspoon of powder with boiling water and mix the gloop into his food. as rollo is a bigger dog i would use a higher dose at first and use it with every meal. you cannot overdose so you don't need to worry about giving too much.

please try it for rollo's sake. if you are not willing to try this simple, cheap, safe option then i agree with others who are saying to rehome - because, actually, you are NOT doing everything you can.

i'm sorry if that sounds harsh but i have followed your threads about rollo from the start and have advised about slippery elm many times before.

Madsometimes · 03/03/2012 10:12

Solo2 - You have been very harsh on yourself. You and your children have really been through the wringer with Rollo. My dog has had giardia twice, and that was bad enough, but you have had to deal with symptoms constantly for too long. As a dog owner, I can tell you that this is not normal, but you know that already - your instinct and your vets have told you. I'm sorry, I don't have any answers for you, I have read your threads and your determination to do the best for your dog and children shines through.

At times like this, we do miss Vallhalla. She was actually very compassionate in situations such as yours where you have not given up on your dog but really tried your best. I don't think that private rehoming would work in Rollo's case, but sadly it sounds like the breeder doesn't sound like a good option either.

Solo2 · 03/03/2012 10:27

Ceres, I do appreciate that slippery elm has worked wonders for you and I know you have good intentions in recommending it. My vets thought it was simply a complementary medical thing that they'd not recommend and have told me time and again to give Rollo nothing but the recommended Royal Canin Sensitivity. It's very very hard to go against their advice, when this is my first dog and I don't want to cause more tummy trouble.

3cutedarlings (lovely name!), when Rollo is WELL, he takes about 4 hrs a day, if I factor in driving to walks and walking and training and toileting and feeding (which always has to be done v v slowly using a treat ball, across about 45 mins). That's JUST about manageable and I'd JUST thought I was starting to cope really and then his recall went - thus meaning longer on-lead walks to compensate for the loss of the offlead runs he had and more training for recall. That was harder but then the recurrence of diarrhoea, meriting night time care, has made it feel impossible, as I can't catch up on sleep during the days - all of which are packed with responsibilities.

Anyway, good news so far is that his temperature has gone down overnight but I can't speak to the vet until she's free at midday and I'm not working. I'll see what she says then.

OP posts:
D0oinMeCleanin · 03/03/2012 10:30

Solo the food your vets prescribe, do the vets sell it at their surgery?

BehindLockNumberNine · 03/03/2012 10:35

solo - vets are sponsored / financed by pharmaceutical companies. Of course they are not going to recommend anything complimentary / alternative.

We used to have to give Sam Pro-Kolin in his food. A tube costs around £12 online and lasted us 5 days. And it would not do much for his poo. But the vets recommended it so it must be good right?

We now buy slippery elm powder. A huge tub costs £16. A tub lasts us 3 monhts. Financially much much better. And his poos - soft but formed and pick-up-able. Much much better than on the vet recommended Pro Kolin.

Don't forget - vets are not NHS. They are a commercial industry and as such they endorse products which make them money.

As your vets have not yet managed to 'cure' Rollo, simply kept him ticking over until the next relapse, and you are getting conflicting advice on cause / treatment every time yuou visit the vets, I have to ask why you are trusting them so completely??

You are an intelligent woman, do your own research, make up your own mind.

Slippery Elm is completely safe. The worst it can do is not work. It won't make Rollo worse but there is every chance it will help him.

Try it!

ChickensHaveNoLips · 03/03/2012 10:35

Solo, why is Rollo taking that many hours out of your day when he's well? I have a high energy dog, and he fits in with me apart from his hour/two hours a day walks. Training is five minutes here and there throughout the day. I mean this with all kindness, but do you suffer with anxiety issues? Because this fixation on being the 'perfect' owner makes me think that you might. And you don't have to suffer x

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