MAFS #5- Stevo is a massive knobbo, Ixperts are still gaslighting the contestants. We wish for more and get nothing but sad care bears. NO SPOILERS

[Dillite2]

You lot need to stop talking so much. I am 3 pints of gin in, it's hard work with everyone wanting to be in my business 😉

😂😂

Grace has sensory issues with touch - fact. She gets overwhelmed a lot & her friends are used to having to manage her. She is fixated & obsessed with gender politics - fact. She has been paired with someone with traditional /outdated gender roles & they are not compatible with her own. But her reactions & meltdowns are extreme. She is another one that is being exploited for the show. I believe they have not revealed her likely ND (when perhaps they should have). I think Ashley is aware of it though & so is doing his best to accomodate her but is also completely terrified of how to approach her because she is exploding all over the place. And caught in obsessional thinking loops & fixating on every tiny thing.

And while she is absolutely entitled to the right about how & when she is touched or consent regarding sex etc her double standards are just tripping her up all over the place. She shouldn’t have been recruited but they saw her coming sadly.

Equally why is she not directing her gender politic at the show’s format? Why is she not challenging them pushing “intimacy” & “opening up”? Why is she not challenging the ixperts & their misogynist agenda? Ashley too is a pawn (not excusing him) in a misogynist show. If her feminist credentials were that strong why would she sign up to it in the first place? She is p’haps only too aware of it all now & like all the others now doing damage limitation to be able to bow out gracefully (having remained in x number of episodes per production’s demands/manipulation).

Does anyone know if they get paid or given bonuses the longer they remain? Fame/air time can’t be the only incentive surely?

I think you're hugely overstating a 'fixation' there, but I suspect that's because of the show's editing. It's a clash of norms re gender relations with neither being particular dramatic but it's all being heightened to create a storyline for this show. Participants have said they are on the couch for an hour or more each filming the commitment ceremony so that one short exchange has been chosen for narrative and may have been only a side conversation when it was filmed.

FWIW Grace has said she is not autistic on her social media. I know this thread usually doesn't cover anything not in the show itself so I hope posters will forgive me on this but I feel like it matters. I think she has high levels of anxiety regardless and do agree that she doesn't seem to be a great person to be on the programme full stop.

so far I think John and Abi seem quite normal and nice ( not abi’s mum of course). I’m hopeful for them!

@Doubleraspberry that’s interesting she has not been diagnosed with ND. But even her own friends have told her not to fixate, ruminate. I agree she exhibits high levels of anxiety - much more so than the other contestants. Her reaction to simply seeing her groom at the aisle triggered an extreme resoonse /anxiety attack. Which I sympathise with, but it’s derailing her ability to simply relate. She could use humour or irony or other ways to deal with the differences in their outlook. But if he does something or anything that suggests sexism she catastrophises it & is more reactive than is needed for a show of this nature.

Grace is most definitely over the top, and it’s interesting that both the in laws and her feminist friends noticed it.

Shouldn’t have to be apologising for making a joke, especially meeting. The parents for the first time. It was a lot

Also interesting to point out that Grace doesn’t take issue with the show’s format. I think she probably does. But all of the contestants are intimidated by the judges to be honest, they never seem to speak up when they disagree with them.

They always look like naughty children rather than adults couples, experts always have the final word.

Yes I find the editing of the looks the contestants give each other when the judges deliver the judgements quite telling, considering they are so clearly edited from other sessions. You can really see what they want you to think or believe. It's all part of watching the show on 2 levels, one is what they want you to see and the other is subtext that you get if you really pay attention.

An example of this was when Sarah was eviscerated by Paul for having the Ick Leigh was edited in giving a semi-nod of approval. In the second evisceration by Mel Rebecca did what I took as a a WTF! face, as if it was all a bit too much. Its a shame they don't speak up for each other as they know each other better than the experts at this point.

Although they did edit in a lovely bit of Kehe/Davide side eye when Steven was spouting his stuff, which very much mirrored what was happening on our sofa.

I have a few similarities with Grace. So just wanted to explain the blowing hot and cold, as I see it.
i have OCD, sometimes characterised as ND. So at times deal with heightened anxiety from various triggers. I also at times struggle with touch but only if I’m getting anxious.
It’s like a prickly scratchy coat comes over me and more often it happens around men ….nothing untoward has ever happened, but I think it was men in my younger years, maybe invading my space, making unpredictable advances.
I also meet a lot of dickheads in my job ….bizarrely like Grace I also work in the NHS, but as a paramedic. I can handle that totally, because once the uniform goes on, I’m play acting a role -hence why she is probably able to be a midwife.
I am very happily married to a very affectionate man and my prickly coat never appears there 🤣 so I totally get where Grace is coming from, even though she’s trying to mask it all, with her take on feminism.
There is not a hell’s chance I would go on this bloody programme!

the new bride Abigail with Blinkless, really sounds like Debbie Magee!

Agree with all this. There is a huge communication problem between the two of them particularly her over reaction to absolutely everything. So many of the issues she makes a drama about could quite easily be addressed with a few simple words and not taking offence at absolutely everything. She’s even admitted he lovely, kind and generous so she must she there’s no malice in some of the things he says.

We’ll now probably never really know what went in with the dress incident as it’s changed so many times but if someone said to me ‘haven’t you got a dress you could wear’ I’d have just said that I was happy with my choice and I was sticking with what I was wearing unless of course Ashley was right and she didn’t know the venue and hadn’t realised it was dressier than what she was wearing. I think most people would appreciate being told the ‘dress code’ if they didn’t know where they were going so they didn’t turn up in jeans and a sweatshirt when everyone else was dressed up to the nines.

She even blew the nail incident out of proportion. If he’d asked her to get her nails done when it wasn’t something she’d normally do I’d understand her irritation but she does have her nails done and they’d grown out. Again I think most people would appreciate their parter offering to pay for their nails to be done if it was something they did anyway.

Unfortunately Ashley can’t be himself as his sister pointed out as he’s literally walking on eggshells around her in case she blows up. She’s on edge all the time looking for offence. They probably need to go their separate ways and Ashley marry Nelly instead.

I don’t think she’s on edge all the time looking for offence. I just think she’s on edge a lot of the time because she’s anxious. Too anxious for this show.

Good god don’t wish misogynist Ashley on Nelly.

I was thinking this last night. I think she's made an error of judgement going on a show like this.

My take on the dress story is; Grace doesn't want to be told what to wear regardless of venue. So Ash saying 'I knew where we were going' just doesn't help. Grace wanted whatever she decided to put on to be enough for any eventuality.

I'm a fairly off the wall dresser that leans more casual. I wouldn't want the expectation of having to wear a dress unless I decided I was in a dress mood.

Anyway, they're in London in 2025. Everywhere is casual clothing accepting.

I don’t see misogyny either, as far as Grace and Ashley are concerned. She’s obsessed with picking him up on everything he says and does. Then she changes the narrative but accuses him of doing that. She drones on and on, just see how many posters are sick of dressgate.

If this was the other way around posters would be shouting gaslighting.

I think Ashley's traditionalist values are easier to swallow as they're delivered with a smile. Their relationship is never going to work and they were cast because of this dynamic.

He admitted he had lied to the experts - Grace was being gaslit by him whether he knew it at the time or not, he has since said she was right and he had asked her several times to dress up with a dress and had lied to the experts about what he had actually said.

Totally agree!

I don't think either of them know what was truly said about the dress, The story has been changed and embellished multiple times.
Was the conversation recorded? I don't recall seeing it. I hope someone will create a tiktok with the many variations of the story.

And edited to hell. I think given the quantity of info out there now from previous participants on the various versions of MAFS we need to be more intelligent consumers. The dress is a storyline we're being fed - and will form a small part of everything else that was filmed. It might have been a massive issue for them or it might really have been just a storm in a teacup.

He said he had lied last night when they discussed it in the kitchen - I think a lot of ppl were posting that it was boring at the time. I don't think he sets out to be misogynistic, it's just ingrained and not meant with malice. That's why she is struggling because she knows he is a nice person but he's the sexist equivalent of the racist uncle no one wants to talk to at the Christmas table.

Have to say when Ashley’s mum & sister were due I was expecting them to be uber feminine tomboy Barbie’s from the way Grace has made him appear. I was expecting full glam, for them to be judgemental of Grace for not looking after their boy types & judgemental of her being fresh faced & not “looking after herself”. They were nothing of the sort & his sister summed it up v well that he’s just desperate to be loved & to please his partner. So I do think the sexism of Ash has been blown out of proportion & made to seem worse than it is too.

I mean Grace even had a go at Davide at the girls” drinks pre their weddings for using gendered roles referring to housework with blue jobs & pink jobs. He looked really taken back & corrected himself - which yes at least he was aware it’s not PC to use gender stereotyping & poor Ashley isn’t even at that level of evolution - but had she been paired up with Davide her over reactions could quite easily have made even him look like a Neanderthal.

I actually think Nelly & Ash would make a great couple! She would correct him prob quite playfully & be like we’ve got to teach you & I think she would appreciate his gestures & what he thinks is chivalry.

I mean are we really saying Ash is more sexist than someone like Steve??

I genuinely don't think he is remembering exactly what h has said either, he is trying to calm her down by agreeing, he is walking on eggshells.

Have to say when Ashley’s mum & sister were due I was expecting them to be uber feminine tomboy Barbie’s from the way Grace has made him appear

I am not following the logic here…why would you expect his mum and sister to be uber feminine based on what Grace has said about ASHLEY? You seem to holding up them not being in full glam as proof that Ashley isn’t sexist? I don’t get that.

To be clear, I’m not even arguing that he is or he isn't sexist, but my point is thats a separate issue to how his female family members dress. They are their own people.

He likely wouldn’t have much interest in how they look since he obviously doesn’t see them as potential love interests. I mean even the average misogynistic Welsh/British man does not attempt to control their mum or sisters appearance. (Or if they do would get laughed at 😆)

Even if they were “tomboy Barbies” , I don’t really see that would prove OR disprove anything Grace has said. It’s like a man having an overweight mum or sister isn’t necessarily proof that he doesn’t make negatives comments about his partners weight or pressure her to lose weight.

I agree Steven is way worse than Ashley but has anyone even said Steven (who is absolutely vile btw) is less sexist than Ashley? If so yes I agree that is wrong.

Ok you don’t get what I mean - b’cos Grace has reacted so strongly Ash appears to be way more sexiest than he actually is & like a Neanderthal. As sexiest attitudes are formed by upbringing & family relationships gender roles are formative. Hence it being reasonable to expect that if he was so sexist then he’d maybe hail from.a family of stereotypically traditional feminine women where he’s been brought up to comment on & value appearance, maintenance, nails etc. And where if these values were so strongly felt - as has been edited on the show - they might’ve been reflected in the family he’s come from & from whom he’s formed his notions of gender & what being a woman is.

Hence why if that were the case they might’ve been v looks obsessed or passed comment on Grace’s appearance or said “she’s not Barbie enough for you is she Ash”. It would have validated the narrative that he’s a Neanderthal. But they didn’t. They thought she was his type. But she doesn’t look like a tomboy Barbie does she? She’s natural & mostly make up free. And he’s not as sexist as he’s been made out to be. He’s ignorant that’s for sure. But he’s not an evil sexist in the way he’s being portrayed. And is able to respect women unlike a real sexist & misogynist - Steve.

Does anyone else get what I’m saying?