Abortion - The Choice . Tuesday 13th May, BBC 2, 9pm

[Milliways]

Tuesday 13th May, BBC 2, 9pm: Abortion - The Choice.
"Five women face up to their decision to have an abortion, describing their thought processes as they made one of the most difficult choices anybody can make, and on which there can be no hard and fast agreement. Beyond the chatter, 200,000 pregnancies are terminated in the UK each year and none is anything less than tortuous and painful - as demonstrated by this poignant film."

It is one of those issues where there is no easy answer. Killing a foetus is horrible to think of but forcing women to carry on with pregnancies against their will is even worse.

All that can be done is to make the best of it with things my friends never had:

• decent counselling before and after
• no waiting lists
• advice re contraception

And I think the adoption situation should be addressed. I think I would have been more willing to carry an unwanted child to term if I thought I could choose adoptive parents for them.

IN some cases of foetal abnormality, the foetus will not be born alive, or will live only a very short space of time once born, and the woman may feel that it's better to terminate the pregnancy than to continue it. Not every woman would make that choice and (as with the choice to continue or terminate a pregnancy whatever the circumstances) it's UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL WOMAN. It's no-one else's business. While the man whose sperm contributed to the pregnancy may have an opinion which he has a right to express, his wishes cannot over ride those of the woman. Because he doesn't own her and has no rights over her body.

Well said, Madamez.

Quite - and that is why I get so incensed when male MPs campaign for tougher abortion laws (as has happened in the past).

I get even more incensed when women campaign for tougher abortion laws, tbh. And don't forget it was David Steel's backbench bill that made abortion legal.

well, tbh, you either believe abortion is acceptable or you don't. Your gender isn't relevant on that score. Ann Furedi and Evan Harris are both equally valid spokespeople for the pro-choice lobby.

I hate it when people make it a religious issue.

Gender has some relevance, though, because anti-abortion men are talking from a position of ignorance. And given the inequality between men and women, it ill-behoves men to contribute to the oppression of women.

Wow. It is great that this debate is still on going. I also think it is fantastic that it hasnt descended into hateful name calling like so many other threads do on here.

I feel it isnt just about the rights of mother & child. It is all about quality of life.
Is it fair to condemn mother and child to a miserable life because she doesnt have the skills/cash?
Is it fair to condemn a severly disabled child to a short painfilled life just to appease the anti-choice lobby?
Does anyone remember that poor little girl who's parents battled against the hospital that had wanted to withdraw treatment?
I do. That baby had absoluetly no quaility of life. The parents had several other children already. They were nut case christians. Well they now have separated and the poor baby is in the care of social services, who have real trouble placeing "normal" children let alone children who just sit and dribble.
Would it not have been better for everyone if the mother had been given the opportunity to have a termination?????

Edam your second post illustrated what I meant - that men should not be in a position to dictate what women do re. pregnancy.

edam, but surely, by making an issue of gender, an anti-abortion woman would have more moral authority than a pro-choice man?

My opinion is that I do not like the idea of abortion all that much.

My stance is that I have no right to make anybody else think the same way.

That is pretty much how I feel madmuggle

I feel the same way MM and LL. FOr myself I would not (I don't think) choose to terminate a PG and didn;t really consider it seriously when I found out DS was on the way (and it's a bit academic now as I doubt I shall ever be PG again, too old). HOWEVER I would fight tooth and nail for every otehr woamn's right to make the choice that's best for her.

well said riven

xxx to your dd

Riven: I am sorry to hear about your daughter. (I don't know and it is of course none of my business whether you knew before her birth what was going to happen), but I think that the different choices women make if they are warned of severe foetal abnormalities etc, are still up to them and no woman should be condemned for the choice she makes. The ethics of keeping alive the very severely disabled if they are in constant pain, or having to have operation after operation, is a huge subject for discussion and saying it is worthy of discussion is not to criticize the decisions anyone else has made.

dd sits and dribbles. and is severely brain damaged. She's got as much right to be living as anyone here.
Prove to me that death is fun filled and much better than life even as a disabled person.
And we tend to say 'non-disabled' rather than 'normal' ffs
You have no fucking idea what thats child's life is like. Being disabled is not a fucking 'worse than death' scenario.

well fucking said riven.
thank god for people like you on mumsnet

people can "sit and dribble" whilst being as intelligent as you or I. Having severe physical disabilities doesn't inevitably mean having no quality of life or ability to assert oneself with access to the right communication aids/carers etc.

I suggest watching beyond boundries on bbc2 9pm fridays instead of car crash tv.

Ronshar, 'hateful namecalling'? Then you say that ss "have real trouble placeing "normal" children let alone children who just sit and dribble... Would it not have been better for everyone if the mother had been given the opportunity to have a termination."

Pull your head out of your arse for a minute and think about what you just said. I'm pro-choice, not pro-judgement. Who the fuck are you to say whether that child deserves to live.

Holy cr*p that was a foul and ignorant thing to say, Ronshar!

Prof Stephen Hawkins sits and dribbles, doesn't he?