Abortion - The Choice . Tuesday 13th May, BBC 2, 9pm

[Milliways]

Tuesday 13th May, BBC 2, 9pm: Abortion - The Choice.
"Five women face up to their decision to have an abortion, describing their thought processes as they made one of the most difficult choices anybody can make, and on which there can be no hard and fast agreement. Beyond the chatter, 200,000 pregnancies are terminated in the UK each year and none is anything less than tortuous and painful - as demonstrated by this poignant film."

You are right custardo.

We should be putting more into the education of girls before they are sexually active. But then we open up another can of worms of those parents who think they are the only ones who can tell their children about sex and then dont do a good enough job of it!!!

RubyRioja.
You are right in that I didn't want the experience. What I wanted was to not be pregnant, but I was and had to make a choice. The choice I made for me and my family (one DD) was the right one. I didn't know I was pregnant until 19 weeks and had to wait another 4 weeks and 5 appointments and travel to London from Glasgow to get it.
I wasn't irresponsible, as I said in an earlier post I had a mirena coil.
I do feel guilty sometimes, I've come out of the depression but I feel guilty for not feeling guilty!
Society expects women to feel guilt and regret, almost that abortion is OK so long as you regret it and feel bad about it forever.
I don't, I did the right thing but there are times when I feel I'd be an outcast not only for having an abortion, especially so late on, but for not regretting it.

I am still responsible, I had an implant fitted 2 weeks after the abortion and I'm getting sterilised next week because I know I'd abort again if I fell pregnant and I don't feel that would be right for me if I hadn't done all I could to prevent it

Oh I didn't think you meant that.
I just wanted to say from the point of view of someone who has been through it fairly recently.
I don't have regrets, I did do the right thing and I can't regret not using contraception because I did use it.
It is a miserable and very lonely experience though and I wish I hadn't been in that position and have to go through life knowing I've had an abortion but most of what I feel is how I think I should feel given the labels people put on people who have had an abortion and that is what's sad.

I just watched it now while ds was sleeping and I was shocked at my reactions. The doctor/surgeon showing the instruments he uses and exactly what he does at what stage was harrowing. The scan before the abortion, the comment about "If i could get a hoover and do it myself I would" was horrific...
I have always felt it is a woman's right to choose but then I wondered how the surgeon could bring himself to do this, day in and day out and questioned myself. I did feel it was biased editing and reporting. What about all those unwanted kids being brought up as we speak etc. I felt that we were very much being pushed to see abortion as a sin.
I thought the black girl was lovely and felt so sorry for her because it seemed like with more hopeful circumstances she would have had the baby in an instant. I think that goes for a lot of abortions though and that is the point.

People are made to feel a certain way though RubyRioja, by society.
I know I feel it.
How dare I have an abortion and not feel regret? , yet I don't, but that's what makes me feel bad, because I don't feel bad.
I heard a statistic just before I had my abortion that said 1 in 3 woman will have a termination at some point in their lives in this country. Now I don't know how true it is but if it is, then the face of abortion in the eyes of a lot of people surely changes?
From irresponsible, low class idiots to everyone.

Of course not, well I doubt it.
Having been through it once I'll do whatever it takes to not be pregnant again, short of abstinance but I think those that have multiple abortions need help, perhaps counselling?
What they don't need is judgement and scorn.

Custardo, have disagreed with you quite violently before, but I agree with every word you just said. I do find it really hard to reconcile the idea that in one ward of a hospital NICU are fighting their arses off to save a 23 or 24 week gestation baby, and down the corridor another "feotus" the same age is being hacked to bits.

As someone earlier said, its fine to have an opinion about abortion, but only if its the right on, women have the right to choose, opinion.

Does a woman's right to choose really extend to a right to choose to kill? Except in extremely rare circumstances, no, I don't think it does.

I found the program interesting, at times harrowing, and at the end, very very sad.

I agree it is the woman's choice, as every situation is different; but agree with Custy that more education could help avoid the later procedures.

The oddest things were showing actual products of an early termination, as I have had 2 m/c I found this gruesome and unnecessary, and when the end credits were rolling the recordings of the staff at the clinic talking about the prices of consultations/ the procedures - why was that left in? Seemed out of place and again unnecessary.

I felt sad for all of the women, but the blonde one seemed very hurt/shaky/defensive and I feel she was edited to look odd.

I think the right to 'choose' and the way we revere 'choice' above all other virtues is frightening. Surely we need reflect again on killing a living baby, albeit in utero, and weigh up if the right to 'choose' extends to legitimizing this?

And then there is the whole debate about the baby's rights or choices. But I wont go there, because I don't think that ultimately we should be prioritizing 'rights'. I think we should think about what we're actually doing and weather it's right.

I hope the limit is reduced to 20 weeks, but I would rather it be 8.

whether oops!

I agree voodoococonut, those scenes of the products of the termination were gruesome. I think the ending credits were designed to make you think of how booking (possibly even having) the abortion etc is seen/treated as such a business transaction/everyday occurence and I also felt the programme was pushing you to see this as wrong. Not that you would need much convincing I know but where was the balance to this?? What about rape victims etc? It isn't just about women who find it "inconvenient" or "the wrong time".

I have to admit though after watching it, I agree the limit should be reduced. 8 weeks max I agree penpotca...

cheekymonk, interesting that you felt the programme was almost pushing people to be against abortion.

Thing is, lots of surgical procedures are barbaric. Watch a hip replacement if you want to see something really gruesome. And top marks to the few people who can do that without feeling faint. But the repellent nature of the procedure itself should not be a factor in deciding whether to stop women being in charge of their own bodies, or to force them to carry unwanted pregnancies.

Well I didn't watch the programme but I am not at all surprised that they searched and searched until they could find a woman who had had more than one abortion/ Just so they could go 'Look! It's a balanced view! One impoverished one, one with health reasons and one Selfish Bitch'.
But I stand by what I said: everyone is entitled to their opinions but if you campaign against abortion you are woman-hating scum. If you don't approve of abortion, don't have one, but you have no rights of veto over another woman's body or life. And don't forget that when abortion is illegal, women will abort themsevles with rusty coathangers, bottles of bleach, throwing themselves downstairs etc. And many of them will die along with their foetuses. Is that OK? Will they then have suffered enough for daring to have enjoyed sex? Because that's what most of the anti-abortion scumbags are really worried about, especially the ones who reckon abortion is acceptable if the woman's been raped - but if she chose to have sex, pregnancy is her fair punishment...

"As early as possible, as late as necessary". Reproductive control is the key women's right because without it we are effectively breeding machinery and our ability to make any choices about our own lives can be taken away at a moment's notice.

But it isn't just their body it it? There's another body right there inside them. Presumably you think it would be wrong to put a pillow over the face of a newborn baby? So why is it OK to abort a baby before it is born?

Not really the same as the hip replacement is it? The hip isn't going to be capable of independent life if left in situ for another 12/20/30 weeks is it?

Because it hasn't been born yet, obviously. A foetus doesn't have an independent life, by definition. The only person who is equipped to make a decision is the one carrying the pregnancy. And no-one else has the right to bully her or over-ride her decisions - either way.

The hip replacement analogy was to point out all surgical procedures are fucking gruesome. Not to compare hips joints and foetuses!

Madamez, you are as preachy, judgy and nasty as you think I am. I am not scum and I do not hate women. I just believe that there are a great number of women who are irresponsible in their contraceptive choices because they know the backup of abortion is there, pretty easy to get, and no repercussions. I think it is wrong. I'm surprised anyone could think otherwise.

That does not account for all women who have abortions of course. There are women who find themselves pregnant, and get railroaded towards abortion by so called HCPs who ought to know better. How about some fing counselling? What about adoption?

You can have reproductive control pretty bloody easily - condoms are everywhere. You can get the pill, or even the morning after pill if necessary, so easily. Boots will give it to you. You can have a coil, or injections, or implants. Its pretty feeble to suggest the only tool in a woman's armory against unwanted pregnancy is abortion.

So the moral difference in your book Edam between a 23 week feotus in utero who should be at the mercy of its mother and a 23 week live birth deserving of full human rights is a whoosh through the vagina (or emergency CS I suppose in reality at that early gestation)? Not much of a distinction.

mine was not about choice, but I'm enormously relieved that I was able to have a termination. (result of rape) I was able to distance myself from the "baby". I apologised to her and said I was sorry and also told her it was as much for her as for me and my existing child. I use "her" as thats what I felt.
I was shocked at how few questions were asked and how "easy" it seemed to be to get a termination.
on the day most of the women there had partners with them. Many displaying visible and audible signs of distress.
I would be suprised to find anyone thinking it was an easy choice. Its not. But sometimes it is easier than the alternative. I hate to think what I might have done had that option not been available.

Georgiemama, no contraception is 100% effective apart from sterilisation (and that is not suitable for women who may want a baby in the future but do not want one at present, obviously). What 'repercussions' would you like women who terminate their pregnancies to suffer? Imprisonment? Enforced sterilization? Public stoning?

And what evidence do you have (apart from your 'belief') that a 'great number' of women have abortions because they can't be bothered to use contraception? Are you not aware that even the morning after pill doesn't always work? I certainly have never said, and never would, that the only tool in a woman's armoury against unwanted pregnancy is abortion. Abortion is the method of last resort, but better than having your body taken over, no longer your own, turned into a walking incubator because of someone else's moronic and misogynistic opinion.

The prospect of women being forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth against their will is horrendous.

Abortion is the lesser of two evils, IMO.