Abortion - The Choice . Tuesday 13th May, BBC 2, 9pm

[Milliways]

Tuesday 13th May, BBC 2, 9pm: Abortion - The Choice.
"Five women face up to their decision to have an abortion, describing their thought processes as they made one of the most difficult choices anybody can make, and on which there can be no hard and fast agreement. Beyond the chatter, 200,000 pregnancies are terminated in the UK each year and none is anything less than tortuous and painful - as demonstrated by this poignant film."

beaniesteve that happened to me - when I was 14. ds1 is 11 now.

I agree with such a lot of what custardo has said.

In an ideal world I think abortion should only be available in extreme circumstances after 8 weeks.

However with ds2 I didn't even know I was pg until I was 17 weeks, so that must happen to people who don't want a baby too........

I think you are right, Custy, to say the procedures and funding should be in place to ensure that no woman who wants an abortion has to wait. That would mean ensuring NHS managers don't see abortion as any easy place to save money - because no-one is going to picket hospitals demanding we spend more on providing a better service for terminations.

But the most important thing would be to ensure that doctors who are anti-abortion are honest with patients and have a policy set up so that anyone who consults them about an unwanted pregnancy is referred to another doctor PDQ. I know people who have been delayed because the first doctor they saw read them the riot act. It's blatantly unethical as a doctor to prevent someone getting the healthcare that they need.

I'm very concerned about the campaign to lower the time limit because it's used as a proxy by the anti-abortionists. They think - and some have said quite openly -that if they persuade society to lower the limit, they can come back later and get it pushed back further and further...

They had based their case on the claim that 'medical advances' meant 24 weeks was now a viable age for a foetus to survive outside the womb. Now that myth has been exploded by a proper scientific review of the evidence, they are having to shift ground.

Late abortions are sad, but sometimes necessary. And the best person to make that decision is the woman whose body is involved, together with her doctors.

Notjustmom, education about safe/responsible sex needs to be for boys too. Otherwise you just end up with girls feeling pressured into having sex and boys not thinking more than one step ahead.

I do think that the point most people miss, whether they are pro or anti abortion, is what about the child?

What happens to a child who has been born to a mother that absolutelty does not want that child?

What happens to the child who's mother lives with a violent/sexually abusive partner who decides it's the best thing to do for the safety of herself and the child?

What happens to the child who's mother has no form of employment or anywhere to live?

These are just a few examples of the reasons why some women chose to have a termination of pregnancy.

I fully understand it is a horrible thing to do. I also understand it is the right of the mother to chose what to do for the best for herself and the child.
We as women are so very quick to judge other women and the choices we have to make. we all make these choices for what we think is the best for us at the time. It is never easy.

I really get angry when the hated pro-lifers put up massive pictures of aborted babies in the middle of my town center. On a Saturday. My 8 year old daughter does not need to see these images. I do not want to see these images.
It will not stop women choosing to have a termination. It just makes that decision even harder to live with afterwards.

Sorry mammoth post.

Excellent post ronshar. Also in my experience, many of the pro-lifers are exactly the same people who deride single mothers living on state benefits.

I am horrified and ashamed that we have such a high abortion rate in this country. But the way to address that is not to move the time limit back but instead to educate more. There is a shocking lack of understanding of the process I agree. Perhaps a sex education lesson is the right place for children to have those shocking images - I was certainly not aware of the process when I was young.

I watched it. I felt so sad seeing the live baby when she was scanned, when it was what I had hoped to see in my own scan even know I knew deep down the baby was dead. A cruel irony. She didn't want hers, I wanted mine. That's life though. I wouldn't judge her - and I had to fight tears when she was left in the room crying. That was so terribly sad.

I went to a R.C school. They showed us abortion videos (suction method) without consent from our parents. I think that was wrong. Some of my friends who went to the same school have had abortions. It didn't change their decision, but it probably made the guilt a whole lot worse.

Like expat I also wondered why women who's babies die in utero are expected to give birth, rather than have it aborted via a surgical procedure.

"I do not want to see these images.
It will not stop women choosing to have a termination. It just makes that decision even harder to live with afterwards."

i think that this kind of thinking is present and very common.

the one that thinks - i can have an abortion becuase its my riht - but please dont show me pictures or give me any information.

and i think thats a bit skew wiffy

I think there are an awful lot of women who have abortions and suffer no mental health issues whatsoever. Infact it really irritates me that there is an assumption that most women do. many many women make an informed and responsible decision every day (I'm not saying it's an easy one) to have an abortion and do not have any shame or depression afterwards.

Society tries to load shame and guilt onto women.

"the one that thinks - i can have an abortion becuase its my right - but please dont show me pictures or give me any information"

but people don't go to look at how animals are killed for meat when they decide they want to eat meatr. Why should it be ske-whiffy? I know what an abortion is as much as I know where my next lamb chop is. I'm not stupid, but at the same time I Don't want to watch footage of other people having abortions, thanks.

your not buying a lamb chop though.

its a tad more serious than thatand i would argue that knowing that certain thngs hapen at certain timeframes would affect the timescales that people believe they have to make up their minds.

there must be a different thought process from extracting a small sack and seeing tissue and detritus - so kbreaking the m=limbs and seperating tem from the body of a feotus.

that must have an effect on the urgency i would assume

blimey wish i hadn't read that last post

At risk of being jumped on....

When I was young I was completely anti-abortion. Then it happened to me.

I had an abortion when I was 19. I was at uni, just about to do my second year exams. At the time dp was also a student, and though he said he'd stand by me I knew that there was no way we'd be able to look after a baby. To be honest I never really considered keeping it at all, and once the wheels got started re termination there was no stopping it. Non-one knows about my abortion apart from me and DP (we're still together 15 years down the line - guess he meant it when he said he'd stand by me!)

Since then I've had DD (I was 30) and have had 2m/cs. I don't regret having my abortion - I have no doubt that it was the right decision at the time. But I will always regret having to make the decision, I constantly think about what could have been, I have flashbacks to the actual procedure etc etc.

When I've had each of my mcs I can't help wondering if this is karma, and if my chance of having 2 kids is gone.

Abortion is a horrible thing - but one which I think any woman should have the choice over. Any woman who chooses to have abortions rather than use contraception is completely mad and needs help rather than condemnation.

Custardo - I am talking from my own personal experience. The scary thing is being in hospital, being out of control. For some people there is no connection to the growing foetus, there is no pain and anguish or moral soul searching.

i thnk that is becuase there isn't education

how ccan there be that lack of emotion - when you would feel somethng for say a dead hamster.

how can there be lack of emotion? Well I guess that for some people they are getting rid of a foetus/an embryo/not a baby?? What gives you the right to say what people should or should not think about having an abortion?

so you think we should educate people to be more emotional about a foetus they are having aborted?

Surely any education should be in trying to stop people from getting into that situation in the first place? Even if you do achieve this there will always be people who want to abort a pregnancy for mental health, fiscal or disability reasons.

npo, i think we should educate poeple about the mechanics. no emotions need to be involved

regarding your second point -i agree i think that both points one and two can be done simultaniously
regarding your final point - i agree - so my personal opinion is for these women to be educatedabout th process.

i would imagine that like me everyone had their own cut off point.

some say from conception

some say no abortion after 8 weeks or 16 weeks and some say its not really ababy until its born.

the whole aea despite the legalities is a personal and subjective one.

in his liht therefore i would agrue that if a woman thnks the abortion of a feotus is perfectly fine at say 16 weeks, would she think the same given an education about the mechanics involved. and if this new educatio rearding the processes changed her mind, then that is her choice to make given tha she should always be in full knowledge of the facts.

the thing is if anyone googles this the will get pro life or pro choice - but there isn't a lay mans terms or non medical speak - this is what happens to you, to the feotus that is available easily

thats all i am saying. if the you decide to not change your mind this is your perogative.

It doesnt compare to t-shirts or lamb chops.
I think that some women feel that those who have made the choice to terminate do it lightly and without a care in the world. That is most certainly not the case. It is a life changing and soul destroying experience.
I have had experience of both sides of the fence. I worked in a day surgical unit which performed terminations. I then found myself in the horrendous positon of having to visit one myself. I can tell you that almost without exception the staff are not happy to do the procedure and the poor girls on the table are not happy to be there.
It is almost like they put themselves into a self preservation mode and all emotion is left at the door.
If we are all being honest and it was a purely emtional issue then the rate of terminations would be very low. There are not many women out there who would kill a child. However if it was that simple then the world would be a perfect place.

i think you are right ronshar, i think this choice is perhaps the hardest choice of all. if before women got to this situation there was education as to the mechanics of the process then there might be an urgency placed by the woman, and more resources and pressure for the organisations who perform the procedure

Perhaps those in Anguish are more likely to come onto a board like this for help. I'm sure people who are ok with it don't feel the need to come on and bang on about how ok they are, unless they are told by other people that they can't possibly be ok.