The Traitors #12 why are we still here?!

[witchycat2]

The third series may be over but we still have a lot to say.

I have just watched half an hour of the new U.S. series. I just can’t. It’s awful!

I just tried to respond to the last thread, about Frankie needing to say that the seer didn't reveal their identity.

Yes!! She was way too emotional about it. If she'd calmed down and used some nous she would have been in a stronger position.

I also hated the as a mummy thing, especially the first time she said it, which I think was before Charlotte's banishment. It felt like she was taking advantage of Charlotte's infertility to connect with Leanne. Which is actually way worse than anything Charlotte did.

Ah, thank you @witchycat2 . I was hoping someone would start a new thread. Kept checking, and then there it was! 😊

I like that Ed Gamble mentioned banning 'I voted for yourself' and 'why am I still here' next year (on the Uncloaked bonus episode). Claudia also said she cried when Minah was banished.

Actually, yes, though I liked and felt sorry for Frankie, I was really troubled by the 'as a mother' stuff, in light of Charlotte's fertility struggles. I doubt it was conscious on her part (in terms of Charlotte) but it was thoughtless nonetheless. Painting herself as a maternal saint who alone could understand Leanne's need for the money, unlike the awful childless woman. It probably didn't mean to come across like that, but I think it's partly why I ended up feeling a bit sorry for Charlotte, in spite of not wanting her to win, due to being pro Alexander and Freddie.

It was a good final in the end, kudos to the production team as without the seer twist and those last couple of challenges it might not have been as good.

Charlotte was also a big part in making the last few episodes interesting she deserved to win but there was no way she could after Freddie voted her and Frankie chose her.

It makes sense for the faithful to whittle it down to two at the end, firstly less chance of traitors and secondly more money!

I think it was a shame that the last traitor wasn't likeable.
(Harry at least was. yep he was mean to Molly but she was a sheep)
for me it made the ending a bit of a damp squib. would have been better if Minah had stayed in.
still glad Leanne and Jake won. Frankie was a bit wet and Alexander whilst lovely, just didn't fight his corner.

I feel very deflated this morning.

I don't think Charlotte was likeable as a faithful but then was even more unlikeable as a traitor.

For that reason, I hope they get mental health support as the public view of her was quite harsh (myself included) for what is just a game show.

Yes me too! I was way too invested in this 😂

@witchycat2 I'm consoling myself by making up a fantasy wish list of who I'd quite like to see in a British celebrity version. Not your famous-for-being-famous Colleens/Rebeccas (as suggested on one of the threads), but people like:

Bill Bailey
Will from The Repair Shop
Romesh Ranganathan's mum
Chris McCausland
Prof Brian Cox
Natalie Cassidy
Ray Mears
Ellie Simmonds

I am really pleased Jake won less so Leanne I wasn't a fan of hers...surprised Linda got so much of a mention by Claudia.

Charlotte at breakfast was awful to watch ! At the end of day it didn't matter as she got voted out but her whole tears and lies was very unlikeable...

Charlotte just played a cracking game until the silly plan to frame Freddie. She should have just killed one of the faithful without a shield who wasn't under suspicion. Maybe Jake.

I didn't like the stuff from Frankie saying as a mother stuff/the mum to mum to Leanne that put me off her....I did wonder at he very end if Leanne would believe Frankie and pick her over Jake however Jake and Leanne had been tight from the start.

Frankie came across as weak and drippy in the last episode....

Happy Jake won he was my favourite

I found the personally-aimed venom that sprang from the seer meeting very hard to watch. I didn't like Charlotte but Frankie snapping "Why do you want this so much" was such an unfair question. It's not like Charlotte is allowed to throw the game!

I don't have an issue with how Frankie played it. She clearly didn't expect Charlotte to say she was a traitor, and find herself in that situation. And then to have Charlotte sobbing all over the castle saying that she, Frankie, was the lying traitor, must have been very stressful and hard.

I also don't think that Frankie was using charlottes infertility against her when she was talking to Leanne 'as a mummy'. I think she was just saying that to raise the point that she understands what Leanne has been through and wouldn't cause her 'harm'. I think it's a stretch to then be offended on Charlotte's behalf.

I liked Frankie and Alexander and wanted them to win.

The seer drama was good. Its much better that Charlotte lied and went head to head with Frankie.

Once Charlotte was banished it was just a game of psychological torture for the others. Frankie and Alexander should have known there was too much mistrust of them. Maybe better to have banded together. Why would Alexander have given Frankie his coins to male her seer AND ask her to question him as seer, if not faithful?

Although I disliked leanne's aggressive- in your face - call everyone out - whilst being incredibly thin skinned - style. I didn't mind that she won. She tried hard at all the challenges to win shields and money, she also put her heart and soul into the round tables. I think the smart move by minah or Charlotte would have been to recruit Jake. He was very obviously faithful so could have been a great one to turn traitor. I just found his win almost accidental and not very inspiring.

There's a meme in Facebook saying Frankie and Alexander should do Celeb Race across the world together.. and I think that's an excellent idea

I really want next series to have no traitors and the producers pick names out of a hat to kill. The park would eat themselves seeing what went there.

Nah, there was no need to speak to Charlotte like that when it was just those two in the kitchen. There's no "playing" there. I don't have an issue with what Frankie said in front of other people to defend herself, that's different.

Charlotte's tears were genuinely impressive! I think Francesca was right to think that she was actually drawing on the fact that the pressure was getting to her, and letting that stress feed the tears, which were Oscar-winning.

Good play, Charlotte! (Who looked lovely on Uncloaked, I thought -- Alexander didn't suit his suit and tie (white not his colour? I thought he looked rather pale and strained) and Francesca's yellow dress was slightly garden-partyish, and I thought far less stylish than many of her outfits on the show...)

In Francesca's shoes, I would have spent breakfast giving as convincing as possible a blow-by-blow account of the Seer meeting. I get her logic in letting Charlotte go first, but I thought she needed to come back stronger, and use the detail of what actually happened, down to exactly what was said and Charlotte's facial expressions, to convince the rest of them. I'd certainly have pointed out what an impressive actress Charlotte had revealed herself to be at the meeting, going from uncomfortable smiling to a completely affable 'Oh well, I'm going to continue to play the game, you can't blame me -- we're still friends, right?'

I was actually surprised Charlotte was banished. I thought her stellar performance had been rather more convincing than Francesca's quite low-key manner.

I'm still also interested in the Francesca-Alexander interaction. He presumably gave her all his coins to get her the Seer power, with the idea that she would choose him to meet with, know he was faithful, and they would ally to win. But would it have worked if she had, and knew he was faithful? Would everyone have just assumed they were two traitors working together?

Can traitors who are about to be banished, out the other traitors in front of the group?Why doesn't this happen more often near the end?

Freddie knew he was going at the round table, so he could have just said something like, "I'm voting for Charlotte because I know she is a traitor". Then when he revealed his identity as a fellow traitor, they would have had no doubt. Also he could have said when he was leaving "I was recruited a traitor 24hrs ago", is he not allowed to say that either?

No. A traitor can't 'out' another traitor. And I think the closest you can get to saying you were a late recruit is not saying 'I am, and have always been, a traitor'. Though I think I would have tried, in poor Freddie's shoes, to indicate by the way I said 'I'm a traitor' that it hadn't been a choice, or something I was thrilled about.

I think Frankie didn't choose Alexander for the seer meeting as at that point she believed him to be faithful from the coins and talking to him. I think he advised her to check Charlotte as he had had suspicions earlier in the day.

I think after finding out Charlotte was a traitor and knowing Leanne had suspicions that Alexander was a traitor her paranoia spiralled and she started wondering if Charlotte and Alexander were both traitors. She worried he was playing her to get Charlotte ousted so he could win everything. That pushed her toward trying to get a mum alliance with Leanne and made her willing to vote Alexander out.

I thought Leanne played it really well. I don't think any of them really thought Jake could be a traitor after his Linda-hunt. Of course he could have been recruited after that but he was complexly lacking in guile.

If I'd not known who the traitors were, I might have thought Frankie was.