24 hours in police custody.

[Toddlerteaplease]

What a horrible man!

Overall I thought it was an excellent pair of episodes, because we learned quite a lot that maybe we hadn’t considered about these sorts of men and how they are initially seen. didn’t find the videos gratuitous myself. They added to my understanding of who he was. I thought it was astonishing that the court took more interest in the exposing of himself than the rape of unconscious girls. That’s not at all on. And that mother. Just wow.

I watched the second episode last night. Was so shocked at his sentence, it should have been at least 15 years.

Just praying that other women see that programme and wonder if they have been victims and come forward. Let hope the police are able to bring many more charges.

Agree with you @LizzieSiddal But I have confidence in DCI (?) Tebbit and her sidekick chap who’s name I’ve forgotten, if there are new charges that can be thrown at him I think they won’t let it lie. Plus if he does get out in 5 years or so they will be keeping their eyes peeled even though it will be someone else’s official job to be doing the monitoring.

I think it would've been had he not pled guilty,so he got a reduced sentence.

Wrt to showing the videos, I think it was a good thing, show him for exactly what he is, let there be no doubt.

I watched both episodes, my question is did he drug them as well as get them blind drunk as not one of them had any memory of anything, not even a flashback.

I thought he’d drugged them as well.

I’m guessing the drugging had something to do with the nasal sprays. They wouldn’t want to say that you can use them to do that as you don’t want to give people ideas.

I don't think you'd be able to drug someone in any meaningful way with what he had. They're just decongestants. Not sedatives. However, it's not unheard of for people to replace what was inside of the bottle with something that WOULD do the job of incapacitating someone. Although alcohol alone is more than fit for the purpose, tbh. Especially with girls who have literally just turned 18

I'm still hung up on the his camp demeanour, though. I wanted other people to notice! I think it's a massive reason that he was able to do what he done. One of the victims briefly touched on it when she said he was 'like one of the girls', but the program didn't delve into it at all. I think his whole act was to convince them that he was gay. He'd never have been able to do what he done if he acted straight

"The D##id W*?#iam# strategy"

Rohypnol I imagine.

I think you can get addicted to using them and he asked for one while he was in custody, didn't he?

I was meaning that he used the sprays with something else added. I think there had to be something else. Even young girls blind drunk would remember something if it was just drink, surely. I’ve been drinking enough to have hazy recollections of events but so much is have no idea it happened.

I want to know where he was working or getting money from. A house as a single person, nice car, all that money to spend on drink in nightclubs.

yeah, it's definitely a possibility.

I heard that he lived with a housemate who was (and still is?) the DJ at the main bar where he always hung out.

But even if he lived with someone he did still seem to have a lot of cash as you say. Was he still a lorry driver when he was arrested? They can get some pretty good money and I guess if you're only paying half the rent (assuming what I read was true) then it could add up. Doubt he was the sort of person who'd be shy to use a credit card either! His whole life seemed to be geared towards abusing teen girl

They said he was a lorry driver

I wish they had, or had been able to, gone into more detail about how he technically went about it and how he convinced them. Although if it helps other dodgy men , I can see why they wouldn’t.

I was surprised that everyone seemed to know him but no one said to anyone “stay away from that bloke” -wouldn’t you have woken up being aware you’d had sex? You may not jump to rape but you’d maybe tell a friend you were not sure what happened but “best to stay away from him”.

though maybe he avoided actual intercourse with most of them (so still sexual assault)? It was confusing in so much detail at sone points but not enough at others.

Yes you’d think the bouncers must have known that he was up to no good befriending young girls and taking them home with him but maybe that’s just common behaviour.
I can’t believe no one’s spidery senses went off that something was seriously off.
I think what we saw of his crimes was the tip of the iceberg.

Even if the men didn’t care you’d think the other women would warn each other. But then I guess like the first woman who actually called the police those women stopped going out, thought they were the only one, or that they were confused etc. Like there was that one woman the police contacted who wasn’t bothered.

They didn't realise what had happened, they were drugged,that's why the police showed them the videos of what was happening.

Same here. As you say, maybe it's partly to not give other potential abusers ideas. But like you, I wish they would have. Whenever I see shows like this I really want to know every detail just because I have such a deep curiosity about crime and social dynamics etc. I guess there's also an argument that knowing all of the details about how exactly he pulled it off could also help potential victims in the future?

But for what it's worth, as I mentioned before, i'm certain that the reason he was able to pull it off is because all the girls assumed he was gay. First thing I noticed on the program (especially when he answered the door to the police) was how camp he looked and soudned.

He'd be able to get away with so much and a completely different approach if girls thought he was gay. I don't imagine there was anything especially clever about 'how he did it' as you say. I imagine him approaching girls on the dancfloor and being really high energy and over the top. Some compliments and making some of them laugh. Then bringing a tray of shots over for them to drink and pointing at his VIP table etc. But the point is, all of that would only 'work' due to them assuming he was gay. I mean, I have lots of straight friends who are always trying to pull girls from bars and that wouldn't work for them! Girls guards would be up. They'd assume my friend was trying to pull them and, assuming they weren't attracted to him/he wasn't her type, they'd just tell him to go away. But with Craig, they'd think 'oooh, he's fun and he's obviously not trying to get in our pants! He's one of the girls!!!' and before you know it, he's got 8 new phone numbers in his phone and he can slowly escalate to house gatherings etc

agree with @famineofcrows

Watching Tonight's on catch-up.

Cuckooing and county lines

I watched last night. Very sad as always. Those poor boys don’t stand a chance.

Also I didn’t realise they had used AI to change the children’s appearance. I initially thought my eye sight was playing up as they looked so odd! Why they didn’t just blank out their faces I don’t know.

It was really distracting,wasn't it?

i'm so stupid. I just thought that one kid had the craziest green eyes i'd ever seen lol