Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

Yes, it goes up and down with the ‘peacock’ side of men’s fashion. Medieval gave way to renaissance ruffs and earrings. Then as you say Puritan black (damn Cromwell) followed by Restoration, Queen Anne (our pirates), and Georgian. All powder and wigs. Regency was a little less, but still the big sleeves, cravats and tight leggings. Then Beau Brummell ruined it all with the trouser. Victorian and Edwardian dress gender stereotypes were repressive for all involved. The 20th century has had everything, coming in much faster fashion waves. Yes, the business suit, but also glam rock, New Romantics, even Punk. It’s definitely freer now. I also think men’s mental health (as a group) is better when the fashion is much freer and allows for expression outside of traditional masculine norms.

I have sometimes wondered what DH would clothe himself in should Marks & Spencer (or even worse, their Blue Harbour sub brand) go out of business....and it's not like he's the only one...

It’s depressing, isn’t it? 🤣 Jeans, chinos and long-sleeved tops. My DH wears three colours. Dark blue, grey and black. Mostly black. I often say ‘Morning, Hamlet’.

I was talking to my friend's DH once (another Blue Harbour at M&S devotee) and he'd recently started a new job in IT and been sent to meet his opposite number at another firm. Both firms had a 'smart casual' dress code. When he got there, the other man had exactly the same clothes on 😁.

DH actually does have a secret flamboyant side which he saves for bike wear and fancy dress...

@Phineyj I blame Mark Zuckerberg 🤣

@MrsJellybee ohhh for so many things!

@Phineyj it's actually being inside Ed's internal narrative (or that version of Ed)

Yes I love that about Constellationism - the way that managing time and organisation is really a struggle for him and he relies on his agent to manage the executive function aspects of his work, and he has these surges of completely absorbing creativity at times that don't fit within expected work patterns - he seems to be an extreme night owl just about getting by on very little sleep. I've just read another ff too in which Ed is a rock star, hugely creative and managed by Izzy who deals with everything in his life apart from writing music and performing. It's interesting to see how these writers bring to life the kind of internal narrative for the chaos that we assume is going on in Ed in the show.

I hadn't thought of it but of course, piracy is one dopamine hit after another, plus the constant chaos that Taika describes in that interview. I think people with ADHD often have a mix of needing the dopamine rush, but also recognising that having structure, routine etc (eg running a quiet seaside inn) can let their brain quiet down for a bit, until it gets too boring. I think Ed would last slightly longer at innkeeping than fishing, but only if they find a way to gamify it.

Working for/with Taika must be a rollercoaster - the thing @MrsJellybeementions about him running around to the Gallipoli theme makes you wonder how anyone manages to focus and get in their acting zone with all that manic energy going on.

That doesn't sound promising! I do love it but it's exhausting too - I feel like I'm thinking about the show at some level of my mind for a stupid amount of time each day. Starting to read fanfiction is a disastrous development - it's so so addictive. I'm someone who already stays up way too late way too often because I just have to finish a book, but with ff it's on another level - maybe the dopamine hits are more regular/more consistent with ff than with what I usually read?

I'm ashamed to admit I've never watched Buffy despite a friend who regular rewatches the entire thing telling me I'd love it 😳 At the moment I can't contemplate moving on from the pirates which I know is ridiculous!

My DD would be an awesome pirate.

Probably just as well it's unlikely to come up as a career option eh .

I'm going to regret this, @lizziesaurusx, but link to rock star Ed fic please?

Busy atm, but re Buffy, I'm just going to leave this Tumblr post here. Some of it sounds awfully familiar...

www.tumblr.com/spuffybot/750115259258454016/someone-asked-me-why-buffy-is-my-favorite-show-and?source=share

@lizziesaurusx Working for/with Taika must be a rollercoaster - the thing @MrsJellybeementions about him running around to the Gallipoli theme makes you wonder how anyone manages to focus and get in their acting zone with all that manic energy going on.

The ending to Gallipoli is also one of the most traumatic film experiences of my life. I did watch it way too young too be fair (10, probably). I cried for days afterwards. I’ve never been able to watch it again. To reenact Mel Gibson’s running scene in that is a form of self torture… I do worry for Taika.

I watched mid-teens and remember very little apart from the running and the final shot that lingers. I wonder if the interview means Oxygene? Or Albinoni's Adagio? (I had to look those up, I don't remember the music.) I can't imagine either being very restful on a film set, especially for anyone who remembers Gallipoli in any detail.

Here you go - don't be put off by the title - for me, it's up there with Constellationism. I didn't want to stop reading it, kept thinking about it when I wasn't reading it, cried a couple of times. It's explicit but not until about a third or half way through, and the sex scenes are fairly incidental to the plot rather than the focus. Lucius and Izzy are in there, and there's a lovely scene where Ed meets Mary and the kids. I'm now onto another one by the same writer where they're both neuroscience researchers and really liking that too, lots about the crew.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/51735184/chapters/130790689#workskin

BINGPOT. Thanks for this. Pure gold.

Happy plant-robbing-day, everyone!

Oh @lizziesaurusx that’s beautiful! I cried.

I’ve gotta say the lives of these rich older gay men in fanfics is really appealing! The gorgeous expensive food, the lovely clothes, the money, the creative expression through work, the leisure time, the freedom to do whatever.

Obviously glossing over the angst and hiding your true self 😉

Isn't it just! I'm glad it's not just me that cried. I'm entirely new to this fanfiction thing but this one seems to me to be a bit special - as @CarterBeatsTheDevil says, it's pure gold (I had to look up bingpot though).

This one and Constellationism are a wee bit lifestyle porny too. Yes obviously the angst, loneliness, unhappy marriages, separation from children etc, but oh for their leisure time and lack of responsibilities, the delicious things they buy from delis and bring home to their neat and tidy apartments filled with cashmere blankets, expensive bath oils and so many books... Also, as you say, the creative and fascinating jobs which are strangely lucrative enough to keep them in fine things.

I need that lifestyle just to read all this fanfic. Wrap me up in a cashmere blanket and bring me gorgeous Swedish cakes and fresh coffee please.

@lizziesaurusx that is a fab fic! Absolutely loving it. I quite see what you meant though: I am mortified for the author, after all that work, that they couldn't come up with a better title! Heh, I love naming things appropriately. I shall shill myself out as a fiction title-er.

the creative and fascinating jobs which are strangely lucrative enough to keep them in fine things The Stede of 'Constellationism' clearly has a whacking trust fund though. He refers to the possibility of calling the family chauffeur service when they are wondering how to escape the Layby of Liminal Space. And vocal specialist Stede is in private practice as an ENT in NYC. I have no idea what ENTs in NYC charge out at, but I assume it's one of those 'if you have to ask, your insurance can't afford it' situations, and that's referenced in the fic regarding the pro bono work. And the Eds of both are lucky they have decent agents and managers. Plenty of dosh in contemporary visual art and in rock music if you have competent people doing your contracts.

@lizziesaurusx Oh my! Been reading it intermittently around life since 5am this morning and finally finished. I first started crying in chapter 3… and it was on and off after that. Chapter 8 into 9 😭Just heart-breakingly gorgeous. Oh, Stede 💔 They got Stede so right, which makes all the difference to me. Thank you for the recommendation.

Thanks from me too, @lizziesaurusx . Our lovely voice coach and his rock star boyfriend kept me up till 2am. On a school night! RL has me a bit busy atm so I'm just grabbing the fanfic when I can. Generally when I should be sleeping 🥱🥱🥱.

Me too - putting a request for an afternoon spent reading on Stede's sofa in my mocassins, nibbling on fancy cheeses and olives, with Ed’s feet tucked under my legs. I’d even settle for the second best cushion that Stede sobbed into.

It was 3am on Friday night for me, and on Saturday night for the same author's neuroscientists one - be warned - don't start that one tonight!