Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

So glad you loved it and yes, heart-breakingly gorgeous is just right. When Stede feels he's soaring at the end is just😍And Ed finds some peace. It's incredible how the author can create two modern characters in a totally different context to the show, who feel completely recognisable - same with Constellationism.

Ah ok - advice noted. But I'll add it to my 'read later' list. I read a few short stories this evening while family had TV on, but nothing really good enough to recommend. I must say I'm also enjoying the 'lifestyle porn' aspect of several fics too. Narrowboat (I forgot the actual title) comes into that category for me as well, even though it's a different sort of lifestyle. I'm not sure if it's something to do with being sheltered from everyday worries giving them more time to worry about themselves. Or just that I'm a bit envious of the lifestyles they are enjoying!

I did read one a week or two back which went sort of the opposite way, from a recommendation upthread. Blackbeard was a (wealthy, in disguise) asset stripper and Stede was totally broke in shared accommodation (with the crew) trying to set up as a personal shopper. It was an unusual scenario with Stede really down on his luck, but strangely compelling. I'm going to have to read it again sometime to work out what I think of it because I'm still not sure!

@Phineyj All good points - Ed is a 'bazillionaire' in Throat GOAT. I was meaning more Stede with his bookselling in Constellationism - I forgot about the chauffeur service. And that he's clearly familiar with luxurious country house hotels. In Throat GOAT I think it mentions he's comfortable after the divorce but that he'd like to do more pro bono work, so I assumed not super rich - but then able to spend thousands on going to Minneapolis at the drop of a hat so clearly the private practice is doing pretty well!

And yes about the GOAT title - it's so unrepresentative of the feel of the story itself. The same author's other one I like (not as much as this one, though) is called Old Bae Season - not the best title either. Fantastic writer though.

Oh! I just realised - one of the short stories I read tonight was the same author. President of the Stupid Hat Society. Because Stede is a guard at St James' Palace so has a uniform hat. I do think titles are not his strong suit 😆

@TriceratopsRocks I'm not sure if it's something to do with being sheltered from everyday worries giving them more time to worry about themselves. Or just that I'm a bit envious of the lifestyles they are enjoying!

I think it's a bit of both. They are both desperately lonely in GOAT/Constellationism and it's painful to read, but in GOAT, that wonderful list of hobbies Stede has dabbled in suggests he perhaps hasn't been pulling his weight on the parenting over the years. To be fair, this is acknowledged in Old Bae Season. Ed doesn't have kids, so more leisure time, and his mum is in NZ, so no caring responsibilities there.

Blimey yes I remember that bit. Poor Mary. She'd definitely have been on here moaning about her husband who wasn't pulling his weight! It does tie in well with the show, but I do admit to liking the ones where Stede actually has a good relationship with his kids. I read a short story the other day where Alma stowed away on the Revenge because she was excited about pirating - that was a nice bit of fun :)

@lizziesaurusx it’s the freedom theses men experience by finally being themselves, isn’t it? It’s like they’re reborn.

Spoilers

The description of Stede learning to ‘want’ in chp 3 and having it immediately taken away broke me. The part where he says he won’t take physical steps towards Ed as he is leaving as he is so hurt, and then basically hurls himself into his pine-smelling neck with a guttural sob. I thought the description of Stede feeling both horny and nauseous during the kitchen scene was a good description of the reader experience of this particular fanfic!

As someone who has owned rescue-dogs, Lucius’ description of Stede as needing to learn to trust… that fear of abandonment…made my guts hurt. I thought Lucius’ character was spot on here too. They got the camp/empathy balance right.

I wasn’t mad about the Throat G.O.A.T title until the end with the full explanation, and Lucius’ influence (again).

I also kept thinking this is like the ‘The King’s Speech’ but with lots of warm, damp washcloths and trips to the laundrette!

@TriceratopsRocks I persevered with Narrowboat. I love the aesthetic in Stede’s boat. He’s a cottagecore whore!

Did you finish it yet, @MrsJellybee ? I confess I read it again. I'd read several AU short stories that all turned out to be 'spot each other for first time, get horny, have sex'. I needed some proper falling in love.

@TriceratopsRocks I did finish it, but found the sm style overwhelming. It’s information overload for me. As you say though, it was a slow burn and not a hook up which is nice (plus the photos of Taika towards the end 🥵).

I’ve just started the other one recommended by @lizziesaurusx They’ve already hooked up 🤣But it’s actually very sweet as they discover who the other is…

Alas, work calls so it will have to keep for a bit…

I understand @MrsJellybee . It took me a while, and lots of zooming in and out on my phone, but I really enjoy it now.

What I also really enjoyed was the neuroscientist one recommended by @lizziesaurusx . Thank you for that, it's wonderful. I've already read 1, 2 and 4 of the series (who needs sleep 😆).

Does the neuroscientist one include the conference trip?

Yes, that’s the one 🙂

Ah I think I’ve only read some of that one, excellent 😊

‘Maybe it’s actually a gift to feel things with an adolescent intensity, but to have the emotional and cognitive infrastructure that comes with chronological age’

Just read this sentence in ‘Old Bae Season’.

Yep. We’ll go with that… #OFMD

@MrsJellybee It's the freedom theses men experience by finally being themselves, isn’t it? It’s like they’re reborn.

It is, and it's moving and intoxicating to read about. But, crucially, they also have the financial means and freedom from caring responsibilities to pursue that rebirth. Apart from the terrible loneliness (and the Stedes in both the fictions we've been discussing have a solid crew of friends and a wonderful Lucius, although neither of the Eds do) it's in some ways an enviable position to be in.

The rescue dog bit was spot on. That whole part of the story is so moving - when Stede is so, so tired because he’s been trying so hard, because of course that’s what Stede would do, and Ed is caught up in the whirl of his own feelings and doesn’t have the emotional intelligence to see how exhausted Stede is, and how also the whole ‘non-date’ thing will (obviously!) seem to him.

Yeah, sorry about the sleep, I did warn you! Sorry about the lack of sleep but I’m very relieved it’s not just me that is so addicted to this stuff. 3 in that series is excellent too - a good insight into Ed's feelings between S1 and S2.

@MrsJellybee the reveal in Old Bae Season is particularly good - I liked that it was a reveal for both of them, rather than Stede realising Ed is famous, so they're both in the same position.

I just checked out the narrowboat story, lured by @MrsJellybee 's promise of Taika photos and it doesn’t disappoint - that photo in chapter 9! That will be my next read, but yes the SM stuff is quite annoying on a phone. So clever though.

I read the one where they are dead and on a ship. I've had to abandon, it wasn't doing it for me. Way too much gushing about how in love they are. I got to the bit where Stede was about to dress Ed up in a blue frilly dress and noped out of it. My fantasy Ed is more of a leathers kind of a guy.

I think one of the lovely things about the series is the lack of homophobia. I remember watching a documentary about the making of Schitts Creek and them deciding to make it so that no one ever questioned the same sex relationships, they were just accepted by everyone and homophobia wasn't considered as a storyline. They've done the same thing and it's great. You'd certainly expect some disapproval from characters like Izzy but it never comes.

@lizziesaurusx absolutely about the reveal. It didn’t feel like Ed had pulled a power-move or Stede was being manipulative (I was going to write was trying to climb the greasy pole , but… you know… ). It wasn’t work-related. At first I didn’t like the anonymity (’Steve’), but it proved to make their connection more real. I loved the ‘snap… North and south magnets’ description after all the angst. It’s so true for them. It’s not just love, it’s physics. Didn’t cry at this one, but the text message saga made me ache. I though the author got Ed more right in this one. The waiting for the other shoe to drop, not being allowed softness and fine things. I loved ‘Bitter Ed’ on the bench (man, I love bitter Ed!). Loved the nod to the finger-war in 2.5 as Stede’s way back in here. So intuitive, so patient, so Stede. The author does a really good job with the psychology of the characters.

Oh and yes to chp 9 and chp 32 pics🔥in Narrowboat!

@AhBiscuits That was the one part of that story I didn’t like. I hate all the Ed ‘Babygirl’ nonsense. I just ignored that bit. It’s not the best written story, but it sets up the premise that they are destined for each other in every lifetime in every universe. And as @TriceratopsRocks suggests, the rest of the fanfic then becomes a sort of spin-off of The Tolling Bell. But that’s where the story is going. That Stede will find Ed in every lifetime. 🥲

I absolutely loved the format of the narrowboat one, it was a slick and funny way of weaving together different narratives and showcasing personalities. I think I may be alone in feeling a bit uncomfortable about using pics of the actors not in character though, I’m not sure I can articulate well what I mean, but it feels a bit off. In a similar way it grates on me when they refer to Ed and Stede coming from Aotearoa / New Zealand, obvs the actors do but it was irrelevant in the show. So it annoys me somewhat irrationally when that is brought up in the fics.

@AhBiscuits I really love the Tolling Bells, but I do agree with you about the blue dress! I love all that emotion. It was the first fic that really made me cry, and the idea of them finding each other in every lifetime - that's what got me enjoying all the AU fanfic. Which my sleep doesn't thank me for (reading till 1 or 2am is all very well, but I often wake up about 5ish. And sometimes I then carry on. Not ideal!).

@Lizziesaurusx I didn't read no 3 of the neuroscientist fic because I wasn't sure it was complete, so thank you. Maybe they just haven't updated the chapter count. I need to read it again anyway, and when I do, I will slot 2,3 and 4 in at the appropriate moments. My memory is truly awful these days so I need to read things at least twice anyway. Although reading at 2am when tired probably doesn't help 😁 And I'm reading so many it's easy to get mixed up. The first time through I just devour them fast and don't think too much. The thinking comes on the second read.

And the pictures of Rhys and Taika are definitely a big draw in some of those SM fics 😍😍😍. Notting Hill was similar. Those pictures towards the end are 🥵. I want!

If anyone is interested, Samba's Crew for Life T-shirts are available again for a short time, if anyone wants one and didn't get the first time. Several sizes are sold out, so you'll need to be quick 🏃‍♀️💨

shopstands.com/products/samba-schuttes-crew-for-life-tees?_pos=1&_psq=Samba+Schutte+&_ss=e&_v=1.0&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2oVwHzo5UAUe66j3ECMhyzKF346pFXPjLnzPUQSe4FRoo8WnJdp6J4tMI_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw&variant=42902973022390

I suppose I figure that the pictures used seem to be either posed publicity shots, or quite possibly pictures posted by the actors themselves. Or maybe I'm just telling myself that because I now get to gaze upon this...

Stede. 🥰

https://www.tumblr.com/bizarrelittlemew/752383449423380480/stiddies-for-gentlebeard-happy-birthday?source=share

And @BillStickersIsInnocent if you liked Narrowboat, try Notting Hill if you haven't read that already. It's a similar style, although more words and less SM.
archiveofourown.org/works/41258070/chapters/103438992

Oh, agree. I loved that one. The SM was perfect.