Baby Reindeer - Netflix

[Spratt]

Got a day off today so I’m binging Baby Reindeer. Two episodes in and it’s great so far, I see that it’s previously been a stage show but I’ve never heard of it so looking forward to finding out what happens. It’s about a comedian being stalked by a woman in her 40s.

I just finished binging this. Wow it was a hard watch but I needed to finish it. Kept thinking that this is true and very bravely written by the person it happened to.
To the PP about warnings on Netflix. There were some warnings about violent sexual abuse before the episode with the writer

I agree with PP about the victim blaming 😔

How nice it must be to operate from a place of blissful ignorance. I could relate to a lot of how Donny dealt with his stalker. I entertained my own for far too long, but that's because I was a traumatised young girl and was never any good at implementing boundaries or telling somebody to fuck off when I ought to.

I've been thinking about this documentary again today and wondering what "Martha" is thinking. I don't think they ever stop looking, stalkers that is, mine spent years trying to access my social media long after I fled 200+ miles and got away from it all. Until he died.

So much of what happened to him is down to his own bad choices.
If that constitutes victim blaming these days, then sorry but so be it.

What about women who don’t marry their partner, choose to be a SAHM for 10 years and end up penniless, when the man cheats on him and refuses to pay anything for the children?

What about people (I’ve seen both men and women) who return to a DV relationship even after they’ve been housed and supported and given every possible resource?

What about the 18 year old who “sleeps around” because they were raped and have no sexual boundaries because of their assault?

People don’t gravitate towards abusive and harmful relationships because they make “bad choices” for no reason. They’ve been damaged beyond belief. It’s so sad when people can’t recognise this. In this show, both Donny and Martha did things not everyone would understand and it’s not to excuse their behaviour but explain it.

♥️

This with bells on.

My stalker is also dead thank goodness

I really relate to Donny's experiences
I did the equivalent of 'making the stalker a cup of tea' one kind gesture that seemed to spark a huge crazy obsession
I was also in a public facing job where I could not get away and I was so polite that I talked to him even though he creeped me out as it felt rude to ignore him speaking to me. I even actually went for a cup of tea with him once as well even though I didn't want to. I was very young and I found it hard to say no plus I also did feel pity for him.
He was a massive fantasist and told me a pack of obviously untrue lies about being a qualified doctor and a millionaire
At that point I didn't know it would escalate it was just annoying unwanted conversation but then he started to ring my workplace asking for me every day and hang around waiting for my shifts to finish. I tried to believe it was a coincidence to start with. I hoped he would just get bored and give up.
It took me ages to report it. I just didn't want to accept he was actually stalking me and didn't call it that for a long time. It seemed a bit arrogant somehow as I am nothing special.
Fortunately this was long ago pre social media so there was no online or mobile phone element to it but he did follow me home and hang around outside my house and other places I went, post me cards and gifts through the door and make heavy breathing calls to my landline from different numbers so I couldn't block him.
When I finally did get up courage to report him obviously it was not his first rodeo! He had a previous conviction for stalking someone eerily similar to me.
He did stop when he got an official police warning but I never felt completely safe until I found out for definite he had died.

So I think the depiction is very real and that when you are in a situation without the benefit of hindsight you do make decisions that you later regret and might seem dumb to other people.

I had also had an earlier experience of a serious sexual assault by someone else in a position of authority who I never reported. I actually have never linked the two things in my mind before (apart from to wonder if they see me coming) but this has caused me to wonder if that earlier experience did make me vulnerable to poor boundaries.

I think trauma can cause mental welfare issues that cause you to make decisions you would not make if you were healthy - and those decisions lead to further trauma. Leading to worse decisions. The whole thing is like a snowball.

For me this series did a great job of showing one way that could happen.

Yes the protagonist was infuriating but he was also making decisions whilst recently traumatised.

It's fascinating so far as the lines are blurred.
Poor boundaries, narcissism/ego boost or seeing vulnerability/kindred spirits.
He spares us none of it, including parts where he views himself as complicit or at least co-dependent.
He led her on for a bit/paid her compliments.
Kind to be cruel/pity fuck territory.
Admitted to enjoying "being seen" by her.
Tried to retreat when she got full on.
Friendzoned her but then followed her. Mixed messages.
Used her energy/support.
Thrived on her attention.
Found she had previous. Oddly flattered.
Followed her on FB as she'd make good material.
Almost two-timing, certainly gaslighting his trans gf who appears to be a shame fuck.
Not able to admit he didn't reciprocate anything for M.
Letting her down gently by saying age gap/kids rather than gay.
A "friend" replying in banter therefore encouraging her.
Then moments where she is incisive.
I'm still early in but the music, the acting, the non black/white nature of it is spellbounding.

Ok I'm over 'beware episode 4' and it does get a bit easier after that. I still have to remember to breathe when I'm watching, but glad I persevered, just about to start episode 6.

Well said, @Tahinii, and it really needed saying. The victim blaming here is clearly from people who don't understand a jot about how abuse works, and prefer to judge rather than learn. It's a shame. I hope they never meet an abuser who can get into them.

The fight, flight, freeze response is what we're taught at school.
But the fawn response is common, especially as a response to trauma.

Jessica Gunning's performance is riveting in this. If Kathy Bates got an Oscar, surely the TV Bafta is hers for the taking. It's very nuanced.

not gonna lie, i was told it was great... watched the first two episodes and was a bit unsure....

however... when it started to get 'real' on episode 3, it triggered me! i thought i was ok with the warning, but sadly, no... its not for me, i saw enough and it upset me so its now off the list

My God the victim blaming on this thread.
I found the whole thing very dark and upsetting but in a strange way, comforting.
There always seems to be a playbook for how victims of abuse or stalking are supposed to behave, and if you make a mistake or bad decision afterwards, too often all the blame gets transferred onto you, regardless of what the perpetrator did to you. For example, I always thought if I was sexually assaulted, I'd scream, kick the guy in the nuts, make merry hell. But then I was assaulted, and I didn't do any of those things due to freezing and being scared, and then I didn't report because I knew I would be blamed.
No wonder SA and stalking is so underreported. This series beautifully shows some of the barriers to this, including the shame and self loathing it can create.
I'm just in awe for Richard Gadd for being so brave.

So far it's a frustrating watch because the guy seems to be...I dunno ...he makes very poor choices anyway. Following her back to her flat!! That's pretty insane. But then I'm a woman so we've necessarily learned how to handle unwanted interest from a young age sadly - would never have the luxury of thinking you could behave like that and get away with it. It's not his fault obviously but that still doesn't make him a very sympathetic character.

I've just finished the whole thing, wow, it really was extraordinary.

Oh Donny.

Have just finished episode 4.
Which now puts episodes 1 and 2 in context.
It's very good writing indeed.

The guy comes across as kind of a... narcissist? He behaves so poorly at every turn. I was looking forward to this show but feel annoyed I've wasted precious viewing time on it. Not finishing it.

Where are you up to with it floor?
I agree with you in part but some of it is his self-loathing/him self-blaming.
I always find it refreshing when someone doesn't mind being seen warts-and-all, especially when they know their whole personality will be judged on it. We all like to be the hero in our own story. It's always a revelation to me that someone will write themselves as unlikeable. I had shied from watching it because of the content but it's been compelling. I've watched six episodes in a row.

He's been doing loads of drugs with that horrible man and then going through the aftermath.

Well I agree with you there - can't understand at all why anyone would put on display that they are such a flawed human. But then I guess the whole story demonstrates absolutely terribly boundaries at every turn, and making the show itself is not really an exception to that. That's why it's uncomfortable. Which is a shame but mercifully I don't have to be part of it if I choose not to so I've called it a day. Which is something he should have done about 10 million times in various scenarios.

what a story!
i hope he is ok now

I didn't think following her to her flat was that strange. He wanted to see where she lived, I guess to see if anything she'd told him was true.

There's a great interview with Richard Gadd here about it, including the casting of Jessica Gunning.

It's interesting as he says he obviously had to fictionalise it for legal reasons, but it's all "100% emotionally true"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timlammers/2024/04/19/baby-reindeer-star-on-martha-actor-accuracy-of-series-its-all-emotionally-100-true/?sh=58d3d8786c1e

I don't know - I think many of us are flawed in some way.
To err is human.
By the time you get to the end of episode 6 he's self-flagellated so much, you worry about what's left of him.
Returning to an assailant/predator, repeating old patterns, opening old wounds is part of that cycle.
If the writer himself has put it all out there in stand up, in theatre and now in a drama series; to try to come to terms with things/move on/make sense of it all, then I hope they've had some release/closure of some sort.*
I thought the final scene with the bartender showed that it could have happened to anyone.
(I thought it was called Baby Reindeer because of the fawn response rather than looking like Bambi, so I'm ignoring that bit! ).
‘I was severely stalked and severely abused’: Richard Gadd on the true story behind Baby Reindeer | Television | The Guardian
*Article in link says catharsis has come from the public response/acceptance rather than reliving scenes which were triggering/self-sacrificial.
He's now writing something new.

One of the best things I have watched in ages, really well written and acted.

What I really liked about it was the nuance, which is rare these days. Everyone had a story and they were all a mixture of good and bad and even the abusers were victims at some point.

He made some really bizarre choices but they seem credible in the context of a mixture of his ambition and lack of self esteem.

It is also a nice feel good story in the end with the protagonist finding support and valediction when he needs it the most.

I really enjoyed it!

I really enjoyed it, like others have said if I look back at some of my choices regarding men when I was in my teens/twenties I cringe at some of the shit behaviour I went back to.
Stalkers fascinate me, just why?!? Do they actually believe it's going to end in there victim seeing the light and living happily ever after.
I've definitely had ex boyfriends who I've obsessed over (to the point I've come of social media to stop myself snooping)
But what causes stalkers to just not care at all about that boundary, it must be mortifying once they finally admit to themselves how weird they have behaved.