Traitors UK S2 Thread 5 - “Another man? Just like olden times”

[CaveMum]

Welcome Faithfuls!

This thread is for Traitors UK S2. Posting at TV pace so if you are not fully up to date then beware of possible spoilers.

Hang up your cloak, and pull up a chair at thr Roubd Table.

Who would like to start?

If they didn't notice the resemblance when they were next to each other all day, I don't think they'll clock it now Diane is gone.

I hope Ross doesn't give Harry too many clues...

There seems to be two camps- the Haz/Evue/Zack alliance and, everyone else. Harry doesn’t realise that the Jaz et al camp are on to him. I wonder how/if his plans will change if he knew. He may not be so cocky… .

I can't help it. I want Haz to win.

I know he's getting cocky but he's worked so bloody hard. He is the only traitor that has strategised. At one point Paul was the most popular member of the group and he flipped that whole narrative and came out covered in glory. I think he deserves it more than anyone.

Failing that, Jaz or Zach for the win. I was so frustrated last year by Meryl. Hannah and Aaron were at least really likable, but Meryl was a fucking sheep who got there by pure blandess.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say I think Evie will win. She is treading the right line between being reserved and speaking her mind and when she looks at the others she has a very astute look about her. If she escapes murder or banishment I think she may work it out.

I think Evie is potentially very astute but we haven't seen it (possibly because of how clever she is). Jaz trusts her and Zach. Jaz is very very clever. Zach is clever. Evie therefore must be too. She might be the cleverest at the game with her level of quietness to go under the radar until the final. Time will tell...

When Charlotte/Charlot said 'I love the bones of all of you' that's when I thought she was false.

I used to take my children to parties in a deconsecrated CofE church. Great fun.

I loved on Uncloaked that Charlie said that a lot of people are saying her and Evie looked alike.

I think…

In between Harry/Andrew saying “let’s not recruit”, and then suddenly saying “let’s recruit Ross” a chunk of conversation is very clearly missing. And I think that chunk of conversation included the cameraman saying “What about Ross?” Harry and Andrew probably thought it was a helpful hint, but it was a stitch-up. (Ross was a weird choice of recruitment, if Harry/Andrew had really chosen themselves they would have picked either Mollie or Jaz.)

AND

In between Ross saying “No. No. I’m going to say no.” and then suddenly saying “I’m going to accept and get revenge for mum” there is very obviously another chunk of conversation missing. And I think it included the cameraman pointing out that if Ross becomes a traitor he gains the opportunity for revenge.

And I think the show set up Ross to be ridiculously upset about his mum being voted out because they put her in a coffin and made him lay flowers, incredibly upsetting to a son as he knows one day he’ll do that for real. Only Diane’s death was made slow and upsetting, the others were all fast and unseen.

I’m not saying it’s all scripted, and I have no real problem with the producers influencing the show in this way, although I do think making Ross attend his mum’s mock-funeral went too far and was unethical. But the producers are now setting up Ross to win. Taking down Harry is easy now. Ross can win with Andrew or backstab him at the last minute, but the producers have handed Ross the win if he wants it, in the same way as the producers suddenly made it impossible for Will to win in series one.

Hmmmmm.

I think Harry would deserve it if he wins, sure he's a cocky little shit but that doesn't mean he hasn't played a blinder so far. I want Evie to win though.

It's easier to play a blinder as a Traitor though. It's much harder as a Faithful. Jaz deserves it most. And I hate the way Harry is gloating over the advantages that any Traitor would have, as that's how the game works, as if he somehow earned them.

Thanks for the new thread.

I've been thinking, and, while I think there's probably some unconscious misogyny and possibly ageisn, going on, the numbers, even at the start, are too few to draw ddfinative conclusions, especially with the personalities involved.

About spoilers - the first series was shown late in the year, as people were busy, getting ready for and/or out celebrating Christmas, so probably people didn't/couldn't commit, then the urgency dissipated and they didn't catch up. This series is in the dull down days of January - so people are looking for something to get involved in, which IMO is why there are so many coming to this new this year (4.4million for the Paul banishment episode, apparently)

I would love Jaz to win, especially after what happened with his dad. Unfortunately, with the constant recruiting of traitors, I think the game is way too stacked against the faithfuls. I think Andrew and/or Ross will win, Harry's hubris will be his downfall.

I too would like Jaz to win.

Harry is definitely getting more cocky and less likeable.

Mollie is Meryl reincarnated.

Andrew seems quite thick.

Zac is highly intelligent so a definite target.

Love, love, love this show!!

I wonder how much the hatred of “cockiness” in contestants plays out in the UK, compared to other versions of the show and their local audiences.

We’re well known for “tall poppy syndrome”, wanting to “cut people down to size”, rooting for underdogs, hating “show offs” etc. Do contestants who display confidence play better to e.g. US audiences than they do to UK audiences?

Why do we dislike dislike people who seem sure of themselves, and immediately want them to fail (which pretty much sums up why so many people went from cheering for Harry to wanting him to get banished).

I’m not saying it’s all scripted, and I have no real problem with the producers influencing the show in this way,

I agree. If you are a faithful you can't trust the other contestants 100%. If you are a traitor you are on edge trying to not make a slip up and keep the heat off you. You are around the crew for many hours a day. I bet they become friendly with the contestants. They take you to do pieces in the diary room, they film you in the kitchen / pool room in small groups talking about your suspicions and theories. I bet they also have a mental health advisor in case anyone struggles with the pressure of being a traitor or having a finger pointed at them or seeing your mum in a coffin.

It would be quite easy for the crew to say to Ross 'I know you and your mum wanted to be faithful but can you imagine going in now as a traitor and then blowing them apart for killing your mum hahahaha. And remember if you say no they might decide to murder you. So let's do another take with all the thoughts going round in your head'. It's not scripted but they are chatting and suggesting options and possibly influencing his decision.

Ditto they could have heard the shortlist each night of who was in line to be murdered and gently steered them away from Diane by saying other options would confuse the faithful more for the early murders and then when it came to the poison chalice / long death 'well Diane's been on your radar for a while. And she likes a glass of wine. She might take the chalice quite easily. Have you considered her?'

The crew can easily plant seeds about what might be good courses of action even if the final decisions are made by the contestants.

Well in Harry's case, I've disliked him from the start. He said he had a face you want to kiss or punch and I've been Team Punch from day 1.

I don't think you can compare this to someone who's confident in their abilities because it goes beyond that. Talking about "putting her in her place" and "I'll put you six feet under, I've done it three times before" isn't the same as "I'm playing this game well". The pleasure and confidence isn't in playing the game well, it's in being able to screw people over. And he does seem to be forgetting that he didn't earn the advantages he has as a Traitor, he has them because they are the rules of the game. He acts as though knowing what's going on when others don't is because he's so clever rather than the game literally working on giving the Traitors that knowledge, whoever they are.

People aren't trying to cut Harry down to size. They're responding to him enjoying cutting others down to size (putting them in their place) when he already had the advantage over them.

I thought Evie and Charlie were the same person until Charlie got kicked out!

I think Andrew and Ross will take Harry down. Harry has overplayed his hand, he got too cocky. He was doing so brilliantly but then he borrowed from the Paul school of traitorism and it's gone awry.

Nothing against mollie but I don't want her to win as she's been too bland.

@NonPlayerCharacter - aren’t those sort of comments quite common in the context of playing games though?

If I think of games of Monopoly, Pictionary or Trivial Pursuit with friends and family there have often been tongue in cheek comments by players who big themselves up and put other players down. When I watch Traitors I think it plays out like a big board game with a similar vibe, so bigging yourself up or talking down other players feels fine in the context of the game.

I get the sense the sense that some other people feel like you have to take it much more seriously though, and that you can’t have that sort of vibe, so cockiness is perceived in a much more negative way. Is that because the stakes are higher?

I don't think it is tongue in cheek, that's the thing. He's actually making me like Wilf from S1 more because I don't think he saw it in quite this way (though I may just not remember it). I know it's only a game, of course, but the things he's saying and the way he's saying them are making him unlikeable to a lot of people because it isn't simply "Oh yes, this is going well, hurrah!"

And actually I think he does forget it's a game when it's not his move. The comment about putting Diane in her place was really nasty. It felt as though Harry forgot that Diane wasn't trying to cross him - she was just playing the game well! But doing that meant she deserved to be put in her place.

The other reason it's not really comparable to tall poppy syndrome is that while Harry is playing well, he didn't earn the advantage of being a Traitor; that was sheer luck. So there isn't an achievement in that to tear down. Jaz is playing just as well - better, I'd say, since he's at a disadvantage to Harry but has clocked him anyway.

Plus, don't forget Harry took down Paul. Live by the sword...

It feels to me like there is so much projection as people create narratives around contestants. I don’t really watch reality tv - Traitors is a definitely an exception - so maybe this is what always happens.

I’ve watched Paul go though the whole villain thing, and as soon as he is gone it seems like Harry is being perfectly slotted into place to move from “hero” to “villain”. It seems clear how manipulated by production these impressions are.

The power of the production team is about not just what you show, but what you don’t show. Each of these contestants is totally in the hands of production as to how they will be portrayed from one episode to the next, and that portrayal will fit a story line. Allowing yourself to get dragged into that feels a bit like being a gullible faithful and just believing a manufactured image.

I watched the first season of the Traitors Australia and what made it so good was how much everyone threw themseleves into the role of being a Traitor or a Faithful but never lost sight of it all being a big game. It was in marked contrast to the first UK season where they all seemed on the verge of a mental breakdown if people wrongly accused them.

Did anyone think there would have been more of a cliffhanger this week? It seemed a bit of a dull way to end. No “ohh did she drink it?” “Is she murdered” like last week just “ah right ross is going try to destroy the traitors from the inside as they killed his mum” which isn’t really cliffhanger-y surely.

Yes, I was expecting an actual cliffhanger

Well yes, obviously. The situation is evolving and the production team edit it for maximum entertainment. I think they do a brilliant job. Reality TV is over 20 years old; we know all this. But I don't think the dislike of Harry is about tall poppy syndrome.

We all know it's heavily edited. It's not supposed to be a documentary, it is entertainment.