“Am I or amnt I?” Traitors Season 2 *Tv pace/No spoilers* - Thread 2

[CaveMum]

Thread 2 as the last one filled up fast!

We’re starting this one after Ep4 has aired.

NO SPOILERS please!

I want Tracy to go, because she's more 'background'. Whether you like either, neither or both, other two make for better TV - which is what we all want ...

People who have expressed doubts about Paul: Zack, Ross, Evie-the-invisible, Jaz, Anthony. Also Miles and Harry, of course - at some point they each need him out. Maybe others started thinking on the morning after Meg was murdered. Momentum is building, unless he can deflect, or someone acts the arse.

Charlotte, Diane and Tracey were chosen as potential murder victims because they'd be unexpected and confusing, but also because both Tracey and Diane have accused Anthony (has Charlotte? I don't know). Getting rid of either of these two throws suspicion on Anthony (see note), getting rid of Charlotte throws suspicion right off Paul.

Note: Anthony would almost certainly realise this, but could he use it as an effective defence from banishment? IMO, no, given his recent powers of argument.

Agreed @Nesbi - I know everyone gets invested in the game and the people, but the contestants are real people (not paid celebrities) being spoken about on a public forum. Saying someone is the type of person to be cheating on their wife is pretty low. He’s just playing a game and enjoying it!

I agree. However, to me the evidence from other reality shows seems to be that when a big character leaves, others shuffle about to take up the slack, so maybe not the disaster it could be

Everyone is in this game to win, you don’t apply to be on a hugely successful TV show with the intention of just melting into the background.

I get that some people do it in an effort to push themselves (ie someone like Jonny who may understandably have suffered low self confidence after what happened to him. But that aside, wallflowers don’t apply for shoes like Traitors.

Or maybe nobody changes at all, but the footage is edited to make it look like this happens! The producers have so much control over what we say, and therefore what opinions we form…

@QueenOfThorns exactly this, the producers have to craft a compelling story from all the available footage

It is called the Traitors, but I Paul is nasty, arrogant and smug in his interview bits, not just when he's playing the game. That is why I dislike him. It's possible to play the game well without being a horrible person.

I really hope the Faithful and Harry and Miles get their act together and get rid of him!

It's interesting though how they are all afraid to speak out even though several suspect him- it reminds me of how dictators keep power... everyone too afraid to say anything because they can't trust anyone.

And yes to the tall white man thing. It would bean interesting future series if there were only older women of colour were chosen as Traitors...

Loved Johnny (except his tash) he was great.

Still reading through the thread but I stopped watching Aussie traitors because of Alex. Couldn’t stand her.

Yes @Choux of course you are right. It might be smarter to keep mum now. Charlotte and Evie ( I think) though seemed to be totally taken in by Harry though.

Good point @QueenOfThorns

The dungeon thing was interesting as it almost came off perfectly (for Paul!). Even though there were no traitors on the team that had the choice of who to save, they still very nearly saved him. I think in the end they probably thought that having already been voted as most popular it was too much to vote for him again, so they “shared the love” by going with Andrew.

I would have loved to see how it would play out if the Traitors had decided to only put Faithfuls in the dungeon. Everyone else above ground was so convinced that there had to be at least one traitor in the dungeon as a double bluff, might they have kept voting each of the prisoners off in turn, believing that at some point they would definitely discover which one of them it was?

If so that would have been a great distraction, and possibly have kept the Traitors a bit safer for the next few banishments.

I was thinking about this...someone like Meg is clearly a naturally quiet person, so in casting her the producers knew that she was a particular type of contestant that others might assume was a traitor, just for being quieter than others. So they were pre-casting her as someone who would attract suspicion.

we are not supposed to like Paul. he has been set up as the baddie. who knows what he is like in rl.

I want to like diane. but the line business put me off her, why should Anthony move for her.

All speculation obviously - who will have been murdered? I don't think it will be jaz.

Jazz – they have already given us a shortlist of Charlotte, Clairvoyant woman – forget her name and Diane

@AnImaginaryCat Regarding Anthony being defensive and aggressive. I think when you have had a life time of unconscious (and concious) bias you would hit defensive quickly.

Same way women get accused of being uppity or the such for defending their point.

Please don't get me wrong, I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. It's a fucking injustice and a shame that we are seeing in there him get picked last, being targeted by Diane, etc etc, just for being a dark-skinned man. No doubt just the tiniest tip of the iceberg of the shit he faces every day when there are no cameras around.

BUT it's also really interesting to observe how much the mannerisms he's picked up to defend himself are actually having the opposite effect (I see this in myself sometimes BTW).

Because he put his head on the block, he raised his voice and said "I've got something to say actually - I think it's Paul" - and he ALMOST said enough but just couldn't quite make his point.

The really wild moment was him arguing with Zack in the kitchen - they were both actually agreeing with each other about Paul! But are both such poor communicators (my hunch is that Zack has some neurodiversity going on) that them agreeing with each other turned into a fight?!

My heart goes out to Anthony because as much as the defensiveness is hampering him in the show, I bet it holds him back in his real life as well. And he's SO SMART and has so much to offer.

Almost as tragic as Jonny leaving, for my money. A dark day for Traitors S2.

I really wanted Harry not to tell Paul about what Jaz suspected and that way throw him under suspicion, but he told him straight away!
This means it won’t be Jaz who is murdered allowing Paul to continue, annoyingly a lot of herd mentality last night in the banishment .So frustrating to see Johnny get voted out!
Paul is playing a good game but he’s too smug it can’t last, but it’s great TV!

Yet they chose a non white man to join them when they were asked to recruit a traitor.

I imagine as well as playing the traitor game there is also some consideration given to the challenges. Having fit men is helpful. Maybe an uncomfortable truth for some but undeniable.

It would be good to see some challenges that don’t have so much emphasis on the physical. Even things like the church / birdsong require people who can move quickly.

As an experiment it would be fascinating to see how a game played with passive Traitors would play out:

An agreement not to target each other, to blend into the background and not steer people and to choose murder victims at random via drawing names out of a hat. Leaving it all to chance. There would be no pattern to detect and the randomness would freak people out.

Of course people’s egos would get in the way in the end, but it would be fascinating from a social point of view.

Hi,

what are your thoughts on Ross and Diane being related in terms in its effect on the game inside the castle? (Other than doubling their chances of winning the money, which seems unfair to the others)

I wonder if the producers will make a situation happen in which it’s revealed, because so far it’s been pretty uneventful and seems to be for the benefit of the viewers only.

but having said that, for as a viewers it would have been juicier to know they’re related and for one of them to be a traitor, yet the show didn’t pick either of them as traitors.

I think someone has mentioned it upstream but I was thinking last night, it would be interesting to watch this NOT knowing who the traitors are. Obviously it would lose something like the VTs and the tower but I’m not sure if Paul IS being obvious or it’s just obvious to us because we know.