The Traitors - thread 3

[IconicKitty]

Who will be victorious?

I totally agree that Kieran broke the rules - the spirit if not the letter! He was pissed off that Wilf voted him out after he had his arm twisted "become a traitor or die tonight".

The thing is, Wilf could have avoided Kieran's epic meltdown if he'd been more subtle beforehand - if he'd said listen mate, they suspect you, I'll throw them off as much as I can, and then looked tortured at the roundtable and voted Aaron...

I think Wilf thought he was untouchable by then. He got cocky and obvious in his backstabbing and massively underestimated Kieran's white-male-privelege rage!! :)

There was a subtler way to play it that might have kept Kieran onside and leaving in good grace, like the others did.

I do think Kieran was out of line - but I also think Wilf bought it on himself, honestly.

I didn’t think Kieron was any more out of line than Wilf with Amanda & Alyssa tbh. He used his knowledge that they were traitors as much as Kieron did. Wilf just happened to meet his match.

He was pissed off that Wilf voted him out after he had his arm twisted "become a traitor or die tonight".

Which is as legitimate a reason as any to bring Wilf down. Wilf fixed it so he had nothing to lose. You know what they say about a man with nothing to lose.

There was a subtler way to play it that might have kept Kieran onside and leaving in good grace, like the others did.

Why would he care about good grace? Wilf stitched him up. That's not the way to get people to treat you with good grace. Keep on making enemies and eventually you won't have a friend when you need one.

I don't understand why people don't get the difference.. At the point when Will was saying Kieran was a traitor, who was doing so on exactly the same basis as everyone else, i.e. saying that that was his guess because X, Y and Z. His views on it held no more weight than those of the other faithful because he wasn't claiming to have any special knowledge. And throughout the game he has of course had to nominate people, just as all the participants have to.

On the other hand, Kieran was plainly angry, and nominated Will and said it was his parting shot at a time when he had nothing to gain within the game by doing so - and a minute later said he (Kieran) was a traitor. He could hardly have done more to shop Will if he had held up a neon sign saying "Yes, I know for a fact he is a traitor on the most authoritative basis possible, because I am one". Will was saying that, like the three faithful, he was guessing Kieran was a traitor; Kieran was saying he 100% knew he was because he worked with him as a fellow-traitor.

At the point when someone has been banished and admitted he is a traitor, why would he want revenge on any of the faithful? That's what the game is all about, after all. Plus, if there was another traitor who had denounced and nominated him, why would he let her carry on to win purely for the sake of getting revenge on a faithful?

If traitors were allowed to send out big obvious hints when they get banished, then as soon as the first traitor went she could have identified they other two and they would have been picked off the next two evenings. By then, presumably, they would have had to recruit, but they could denounce their recruits when they go, and so on. The entire game would collapse in chaos within days.

No, it's not the same scenario, because no-one knew at that point that Will was a traitor, so his accusation carried no greater weight than anyone else's.

On that basis, Amanda and Alyssa were equally entitled to feel Will had stitched them up and bring him down. They didn't denounce him presumably because it was against the rules, and quite possibly because they were more sporting in their approach. I sort of get it that he was maybe entitled to be pissed off about being put in that position, but I'm pretty sure that Will would have told him that he had basically been ordered to force someone to join him and he didn't have any choice. It wasn't necessarily inevitable that Kieran would go, there was obviously a potential scenario where he could have succeeded in persuading enough people to vote elsewhere; the others would basically have shrugged their shoulders and said something to the effect of "Best traitor won". But Kieran couldn't bear that the person he saw as his rival as alpha male would win so sabotaged it.

I'm not disputing that it was good telly, and by the end I didn't want Will to win either, but that doesn't change the fact that Kieran cheated.

On that basis, Amanda and Alyssa were equally entitled to feel Will had stitched them up and bring him down.

They were. They chose not to, or didn't think of it.

It wasn't necessarily inevitable that Kieran would go

It was. Wilf had Hannah in the palm of his hand and Meryl and Aaron did whatever she did. As Kieran said, there was nothing he could have said at that point to save himself. He was doomed. The fact that he chose to play it differently to Amanda and Alyssa is beside the point.

@Patineur nobody knew anything throughout, that's the point! Keiron just alluded to it, he didn't flat out say he knew he was a traitor. He hinted in a not very subtle way. I think he actually was very classy about it given the shit situation he found himself in. It's a game based on consequence. How you behave, what you say, how you act determines how you get treated. Wilf could have kept keiron on side and shared the money with him but he didn't want to. He wanted it for himself. So keiron turned on him the same way Wilf turned on Alyssa and Amanda. I liked Wilf but it was poetic justice in the end. I also don't think he would have been truly happy snatching the money off the other 3 when they'd become so close.

"Parting shot" could equally have meant "I know you're not a traitor, but I want to sow some doubt so you don't get a share of the Faithful's win."

For those that haven't watched the US version I'd say stick with it. Yes there are some annoying characters but the twists and turns are always fun to watch. I've got 1 episode left and the penultimate one was very good!

The main thing that annoys me (apart from AC's weird accent!) is the editing - some episodes they cut half way through the Round Table so you have to skip to the next one to see who gets banished. It's so much easier and neater when the Round Table and traitor's meeting take place in the same episode!

Exactly. He could have been bluffing for revenge. Meryl thought he was, even after they knew he was a traitor.

The game rests on accusing people and sowing seeds, because the way in which you cast doubt on people is important in getting them to believe you. If Wilf can accuse or insinuate about other traitors, so can they about him. You can't say it's OK for Wilf to say, "I think Kieran is a traitor", but not OK for Kieran to say, "Really, mate? Well, why would you say that?"

It really does show that as a PP said it doesn't pay to be too bright in this game, looking at the last 3. Meryl just coasted and did not deserve through her "game play" (if she even knows what that is) to be rewarded with thousands of pounds. Too thick even to banish Wilf when even Hannah saw through him through her haze of love hearts!

But maybe, unless you're a traitor, it's not a game that rewards being too smart. The best course of action is to fly under the radar. Very obviously smart or charismatic people won't, plus they pose a threat.

i Agree with your comments, the most interesting and smartest faithfuls were 'murdered' early. best policy for a faithful is to appear gullible.

Yes. The least clued-up participants in the game are the ones who eventually won. So, while I enjoyed the experience this time around with the first UK series, I doubt I'll watch again. It lost it's appeal for me in the final when someone was able to cheat a traitor out of his win. The rules are flawed or the filming is flawed - whatever. A poor outcome for a great series.

Series 2 confirmed

www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2023/the-traitors-series-two-confirmed-bbc

I'm guessing it will be filmed in the summer again, and air in the late autumn

Whoop whoop! Let's just hope the dynamic of the contestants doesn't change too much, I'd hate to see it go the Big Brother route of wanabees and controversial types just for the sake of it.

I think it will change a lot. Everyone is now expecting the Traitors to turn on each other at some point and the Faithful will be more savvy...maybe realising that if you have a strong alliance and don't get murdered, something is up...

Like PP, I hope it does not go like Big Brother and get full of fame hungry wannabes.

The US one was more like that as they had other reality show contestants on. But have to say I did still enjoy it. It was rather extra compared with the UK first series though.

You can apply here for S2: www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/take-part/the-traitors

I’ve started my application! But they want a video so I’ll need to be less impulsive than usual, I guess

They might like impulsiveness.