Call the midwife 2!

[Toddlerteaplease]

Wow. I've never filled a thread before!

Tim went to uni in the last episode of the last series. So if he was nearly 19 then he could just about squeeze into 20 now I guess.

Yes, that's how I remember it. Often explained in detail in magazines for girls, like Jackie, which I got for a bit in the early 1970s. I don't think you needed A levels for SEN training but you did for SRN.

Definitely didn't need A levels when I started my nurse training in 1969. I'd left school* a few years earlier, clutching my handful of O levels, just before my 16th birthday. Absolutely no one at school or home ever broached the possibility of university. It just wasn't for the likes of us.

Nursing and teaching were prestigious careers for working class girls. Seen as 'a qualification that would take you anywhere'. Teaching also didn't require a degree. I remember my cousin going off to do a Diploma course at Teacher's Training College.

*RC Convent school. Absolutely no fees required, just a recommendation from the local priest. We also wore very elaborate school uniforms, with maroon felt hats.

I think it’s curtains for Sr. Julienne, for sure.
I can’t see them killing off the Dr, though there was all that “how dare you speak to your father like that” business between Shelagh and Timothy so as an outsider perhaps bumping him off and the guilt storyline being stretched out “last thing I said to him”.

I left school in 1973 and only had to have 5 O Levels including Maths and English although I had A Levels. It was a mistake on my part and I left after a term and, in 1981, started a BEd Hons which required A Levels. By then teaching required a degree.

While I was a student I worked in the offices at Guy's Hospital School of Nursing one summer (I had acquired secretarial skills after dropping out of Teacher Training College). Pupil Nurses had to have 2 O Levels or CSE equivalent to gain SEN and Student Nurses had to have 5 O Levels to gain SRN. Being a prestigious School of Nursing many of the Student Nurses actually had A Levels or degrees.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

It's very sad, actually, that social mobility is going backwards very fast. That huge explosion of creativity in the UK in the 1960s and 1970s mostly came from young people from lower income families who got opportunities, e.g. going to grammar school or art college or into a profession like nursing, that they'd never have had in earlier generations.

I was a student in the 60s with not-well-off parents, but I had a grant and there were family expectations. Your words 'huge explosion of creativity' are just how I think of the 60s. We are told that the 50s were a time of 'crippling austerity' but I didn't notice, and then Kerpow 1960 arrived. I think of the 80s as a time of the birth of yuppiedom and how much are we earning but the 60s weren't like that. In the 70s and 80s we had prime ministers who had not been to public schools and I am quite surprised that that seems to have 'gone backwards'. Sorry to divert a bit. Back to Violet's clothes last night. She wore a purple and cream checked cape/coat and a red blouse(?) underneath, no repeat of last week's coat. I wish I'd made note of her outfits since episode 1.

@Emmelina

I think it’s curtains for Sr. Julienne, for sure. I can’t see them killing off the Dr, though there was all that “how dare you speak to your father like that” business between Shelagh and Timothy so as an outsider perhaps bumping him off and the guilt storyline being stretched out “last thing I said to him”.

It would also mess with Mae’s adoption. I don’t recall seeing her in this episode so maybe her parents are backing her out of it all.

• That should read '... only needed 5 O Levels... to start Teacher Training'

I expect Violet makes her own clothes with wholesale price fabric from the shop.

@Whataboutye

Dr Grin will save the day. He'll save everyone on the train, firstly putting out the fire, and lifting the train of persons trapped underneath. Then performing emergency surgery on numerous people, using only a tea spoon and the hot water, from the tea trolley to sterilise. At the same time giving everyone on board a vaccination for measles. He wins award for being the world's greatest doctor, with Sheila looks on with tears in her eyes. Mae & Angela throw their arms in the air and sat "yeah"

I assume you are a applying to be a writer on CTM? @Whataboutye properly made me laugh-

Although it pretty much writes itself these days-within the first 5 mins DD and I have sorted all the plots...

@CaptainMyCaptain

I left school in 1973 and only had to have 5 O Levels including Maths and English although I had A Levels. It was a mistake on my part and I left after a term and, in 1981, started a BEd Hons which required A Levels. By then teaching required a degree.

While I was a student I worked in the offices at Guy's Hospital School of Nursing one summer (I had acquired secretarial skills after dropping out of Teacher Training College). Pupil Nurses had to have 2 O Levels or CSE equivalent to gain SEN and Student Nurses had to have 5 O Levels to gain SRN. Being a prestigious School of Nursing many of the Student Nurses actually had A Levels or degrees.

I’m really surprised the bar was that low. Nursing and teaching were considered proper professions for women. I find it hard to believe degrees weren’t necessary for teaching. Do you mean Primary or Secondary?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Tim is at university, which was only for those who could afford it.

It wasn't. Only about 10% of teenagers got the requisite A levels and went on to university, and I would expect the majority of those came from better off families because their children were more likely to get into the grammar schools, private schools and the better comprehensive schools, and poor families needed the income their children could earn from 15 or 16, so they tended not to stay on for the sixth form.

However, if you did get the A levels and a university or polytechnic or teaching training college place, the LEA paid the fees. Students would barely be aware there were fees. Students were eligible for a grant (i.e. non-repayable) for their maintenance. If you were under 23, this was means tested against your parents' income, and if they had an above average household income you got a bit less because it was assumed they would and could make up the difference. Not all parents did, but most did, and anyone from a low income family would get a full grant.

Once over 23, you were a mature student and it was your own income that was means tested.

Yes, this was the case for quite a long time.

In the late sixties you didn't need a degree to teach, either primary or secondary, but you did need a Teaching Certificate, after three years at a teacher training college. Both DH and I did that. I then taught at a primary school, he taught English at a secondary school.

I’m really surprised the bar was that low. Nursing and teaching were considered proper professions for women.
I find it hard to believe degrees weren’t necessary for teaching. Do you mean Primary or Secondary?

It was definitely true for Nursing although some Nursing Schools like Guys attracted applicants with higher qualifications.

After 3 Years at Teacher Training college you gained a Certificate of Education. Most Primary Teachers had this, Grammar School teachers would have had a degree and a Dip. Ed or, later, PGCE but Secondary Modern teachers might only have had a Cert Ed. 5 O Levels was the minimum requirement but some colleges might have asked for more. The BEd was just coming in at that time (early 70s) and I was intending to do that but didn't continue at that college.

By 1981 when I went back into education a degree was necessary to start teaching but many teachers with Cert Ed were still working until they retired. A colleague of mine who only had the Cert Ed retired in about 2012. I did BEd (Hons), a 4 year course as a mature student. I got a full grant with dependant's allowance as a single parent. Until half way through the course I also got Housing Benefit when the law changed. I also got a heavily subsidised Nursery place - thank you Lewisham! If I was in the same position today I wouldn't have been able to do it.

Of course Dr Turner won't die - he comes from the Woodentops school of acting - a bit of wood glue an he'll be fine.

I find it hard to believe degrees weren’t necessary for teaching. Do you mean Primary or Secondary?

@MuffinStrops, I went to Teacher Training College in the 70s. I was studying 4 A levels (if you count General Studies) but I don’t think I I had to pass them to get in.

The standard offering was a 3 year course, aiming to teach Primary, Middle School or Secondary. We studied Education and two academic subjects, one for three years (Main) and one for only two (Subsidiary). If you wanted to, and qualified, you could stay for another year to do a BEd. Not every college offered the BEd, and some offered only Pass degrees, not Honours ones.

Of 11 of us doing my subject, 8 applied for the BEd, 4 were accepted and 2 passed. So, 11 left as qualified teachers, only 2 of whom had degrees.

I left college after 3 years and worked in a private secondary and later a state comprehensive teaching Maths, which had been my subsidiary subject at college.

I think Dr Och Patrick Turner will take a long time to recover. Mrs Dr Turner will take over the running of the practice in the meantime as she’s practically a Dr anyway now, and Timothy will qualify way before his peers and then come back to help his Dad who will issue instructions on how to deliver babies, diagnose rare diseases and improve public health in the East End single handedly from his wheelchair.

Miriam Margolyes will return to take over the running of Nonatas following the demise of poor Sister Julienne.

It takes me so long to type and proof-read that my last post is redundant, but…

One of my friends who did stay on the BEd didn’t pass her A levels, but the teaching certificate qualified her to continue to the degree.

@Malibuismysecrethome

In the late 1960s and early 70s very few from the EastEnd went to university, even if they had been to grammar school.

Before the 70s the percentage of the population that went to university was much smaller overall, no matter where you went. And so many jobs that now tend to require university didn't then. Among my parents and grandparents were a teacher, a nurse, a journalist, naval officer, and a computer programmer, none attended university but chances are today all would have.

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove

Of course the train from Chelmsford to Liverpool Street with Sister Julienne and Dr Turner on board crashed right next to Nonnatus House. Driven by the husband of a Nonnatus patient currently giving birth, with a tea lady who has had all her babies delivered by Nonnatus House nuns serving up free rosie lees.

And of course the rescue operations are now being directed by Mr Aylward.

This is amazing stuff. So bad it's brilliant.

Yep. I wish I could cold turkey this programme but something keeps bringing me back to it. My friends and I all try to predict what condition/illness/medical mystery Dr Vom is going to discover each week

@Clawdy

In the late sixties you didn't need a degree to teach, either primary or secondary, but you did need a Teaching Certificate, after three years at a teacher training college. Both DH and I did that. I then taught at a primary school, he taught English at a secondary school.

Or you could do a 1 year course at TTC after your degree.

As far as the quality of these kinds of qualifications - my mother qualified as a nurse under the old school kind of system, but later in her career that had been phased out and all RNs came from universities. She's had a pretty good career, she was one of the top three qualifying nurses her year, and ended up her career supervising a large ward. She was required to take some university classes, things like psychology and sociology, to retain her RN status when they made the switch to the new system.

She enjoyed the classes, but she maintained and still does maintain that universities produce much inferior nurses.

I wonder how often the Nonatus nuns got time away from their duties - for breaks, seeing family etc.

When Grand Duchess Elisabeta set up her nursing order, she considered it essential that the sisters had time away from their duties. And that was pre WW1

Did anyone else find Sheila's dressing down of Jimmy annoying

It was tame in comparison to today's youth

I mean Tim

@MangyInseam

As far as the quality of these kinds of qualifications - my mother qualified as a nurse under the old school kind of system, but later in her career that had been phased out and all RNs came from universities. She's had a pretty good career, she was one of the top three qualifying nurses her year, and ended up her career supervising a large ward. She was required to take some university classes, things like psychology and sociology, to retain her RN status when they made the switch to the new system.

She enjoyed the classes, but she maintained and still does maintain that universities produce much inferior nurses.

I have heard this from other older nurses. The older nurses have kept up their qualifications with courses, as you say.