Call the midwife 2!

[Toddlerteaplease]

Wow. I've never filled a thread before!

@CaptainMyCaptain

My school had those hats too! Blue velvet in the winter and straw in the summer. Woe betide anyone spotted not wearing it on the way to or from school... they would have the punishment of "hat detention" inflicted upon them. This involved having to wear your hat all day in school. Some girls wore their hats more in school than outside it ...

And having a crease down the middle of your hat was a dead give away you had had it in your pocket. Speaking of pockets, if you were caught out of school walking with your hands in your pockets they had to be sewn up.

Yup - after they'd been rained on a few times, even the straw ones could be folded small enough to be ungraciously stuffed stowed in a blazer pocket ...

It was very soap-like, the way they repeatedly panned over Sr J and the wonderful doctor-with-longish-but-not-shaggy-hair.

I noted upthread that Angela was wearing a straw/Panama hat (ie summer hat) in November. Bit strange.

Also, the lady with teal blue knitting in the hospital was using a modern ball of wool. Balls of wool in the 60s were sold in much smaller weights (bit muddled there, but hope it makes sense). That ball looked about 100grams, it should have been 25grams, only in imperial weights of course.

Tim is at university, which was only for those who could afford it.

It wasn't. Only about 10% of teenagers got the requisite A levels and went on to university, and I would expect the majority of those came from better off families because their children were more likely to get into the grammar schools, private schools and the better comprehensive schools, and poor families needed the income their children could earn from 15 or 16, so they tended not to stay on for the sixth form.

However, if you did get the A levels and a university or polytechnic or teaching training college place, the LEA paid the fees. Students would barely be aware there were fees. Students were eligible for a grant (i.e. non-repayable) for their maintenance. If you were under 23, this was means tested against your parents' income, and if they had an above average household income you got a bit less because it was assumed they would and could make up the difference. Not all parents did, but most did, and anyone from a low income family would get a full grant.

Once over 23, you were a mature student and it was your own income that was means tested.

We've seen previous working class characters go off to uni. There was one bloke under pressure to stay with his pg gf and work in a factory but went away when she miscarried.

@Hellosunshiner

I think they are making it clear that the Turner children are definitely at private school, but why wouldn't they be? Dr Turner will be relatively well paid and they have two salaries coming in to the house. Tim is at university, which was only for those who could afford it. Yhey don't live in the heart of Poplar. They can afford a nice house.

Although the Turners work in Poplar and are very sympathetic to their patients and the community, they live a MC life different to that of the generally poorer community in which they work.

You could get a full grant for University in the 60s and no tuition fees (which continued until the late 90s). It was a great time for working class people being able to go to university as long as they had parental support to pass the 11 plus and go to Grammar School and didn't have to leave at 16 for financial reasons. You didn't have to be wealthy.

Gaspode beat me to it.

@TrashyPanda

I noted upthread that Angela was wearing a straw/Panama hat (ie summer hat) in November. Bit strange.

Also, the lady with teal blue knitting in the hospital was using a modern ball of wool. Balls of wool in the 60s were sold in much smaller weights (bit muddled there, but hope it makes sense). That ball looked about 100grams, it should have been 25grams, only in imperial weights of course.

Yes. Wool was sold in one ounce balls.

It's very sad, actually, that social mobility is going backwards very fast. That huge explosion of creativity in the UK in the 1960s and 1970s mostly came from young people from lower income families who got opportunities, e.g. going to grammar school or art college or into a profession like nursing, that they'd never have had in earlier generations.

As soon as we saw the train driver in a trance when Sister Hilda said good morning, I knew that he was going to have some kind of issue and cause a train crash. We saw him having some sort of seizure but I am assuming he has been killed in the crash, so I'm not sure if anyone will realise what actually happened to him, and what caused the crash.

I am also not sure whether such a big tragedy is right for this programme, but I will see how the aftermath is handled next week.

I thought back then student nurses were paid and learnt “on the job”, so to speak, doing exams up to qualification as a State Registered Nurse. There were schools of nursing, but there weren’t university nursing degrees like there are now.
There was a lower qualification which was State Enrolled Nurse. Anyone who remembers Casualty when it started - Megan Roache was an SEN, got paid less and wore a different uniform (green instead of blue)

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Tim is at university, which was only for those who could afford it.

It wasn't. Only about 10% of teenagers got the requisite A levels and went on to university, and I would expect the majority of those came from better off families because their children were more likely to get into the grammar schools, private schools and the better comprehensive schools, and poor families needed the income their children could earn from 15 or 16, so they tended not to stay on for the sixth form.

However, if you did get the A levels and a university or polytechnic or teaching training college place, the LEA paid the fees. Students would barely be aware there were fees. Students were eligible for a grant (i.e. non-repayable) for their maintenance. If you were under 23, this was means tested against your parents' income, and if they had an above average household income you got a bit less because it was assumed they would and could make up the difference. Not all parents did, but most did, and anyone from a low income family would get a full grant.

Once over 23, you were a mature student and it was your own income that was means tested.

Yes, I wasn't meaning the actual fees in saying "for those who could afford it".

In terms of "affording it", I was encapsulating everything in one broad statement, meaning those who went to the better schools, could afford the uniform for the private/grammar schools, who had the expectation of parents behind them, and weren't expected to earn an income to contribute to the family at age 16 or earlier. The actual uni fees are the smallest factor in it.

In which case, I think we and @CaptainMyCaptain agree!

the school leaving age was 15 until 1972 (1973 in Scotland)

@TrashyPanda

I thought back then student nurses were paid and learnt “on the job”, so to speak, doing exams up to qualification as a State Registered Nurse. There were schools of nursing, but there weren’t university nursing degrees like there are now. There was a lower qualification which was State Enrolled Nurse. Anyone who remembers Casualty when it started - Megan Roache was an SEN, got paid less and wore a different uniform (green instead of blue)

Yes, that's how I remember it. Often explained in detail in magazines for girls, like Jackie, which I got for a bit in the early 1970s. I don't think you needed A levels for SEN training but you did for SRN.

Nursing degrees came in later in the 1970s. I remember looking at one in the UCCA (predecessor to UCAS) handbook. It was at the London School of Economics and combined a degree in something in the social sciences with nursing training - maybe psychiatric nursing? Can't remember the details now. As I recall, it was a long time after that before nursing training became entirely university-based, although with lots of placements in the NHS.

The thing that has spoilt this series for me has been the social distancing but I know to a certain extent that can't be helped. I did notice yesterday though that Lucille and Cyril seemed to be standing next to each other for the first time in about two years. I wonder why they didn't do that before?

Also the babies can't be handled by any of the actors and it was really obvious last night in all the scenes where baby Dean was being bathed with all the awkward cuts between close ups of him and his mum. I think the show's nursing advisor is the only person allowed to handle the babies now. In the new book she said it's often her hands you see when a baby is delivered. I keep noticing that now and it takes you out of the story.

@TrashyPanda

the school leaving age was 15 until 1972 (1973 in Scotland)

Yes it was. I was 15 in 1970 and could have left school without taking any exams.

I remember children in my year at primary school talking about the school leaving age going up. We were born in 1960/61 and so it would affect us, but it was years and years away. They were saying their older brothers and sisters, already at secondary school, were very cross about having to spend an extra year at school. Another world!

This is an interesting article about trading and working as a nurse in the 1960s.

wisearchive.co.uk/story/my-life-as-a-nurse-1965-2009/

The writer confirms that student nurses were paid during training (£26 a month). it was one of the professions that had long been available to women from less affluent backgrounds

It was a very different world.

Many 15 year old school leavers went into apprenticeships and gained practical qualifications while earning at the same time.
In my town we had the following
Wiremill
Papermill
Netting mill (for the fishing industry)
Coal Mine
Fishing Fleet

All gone now, but they were major employers. The town could set its watches by the factory “hooters” that marked shifts. When the hooter blew at midday or end of day it was the signal for kids to get home for lunch or tea. Nobody needed a watch! And there was no excuse for being late.
there was also, a decent amount of social housing available to rent, with more being built..

Changed days indeed.

In the late 1960s and early 70s very few from the EastEnd went to university, even if they had been to grammar school.

Tim said he's twenty. That really surprised me, I thought they were waving him off on his first term at the start of the series? Assumed he was about eighteen.

@Malibuismysecrethome

In the late 1960s and early 70s very few from the EastEnd went to university, even if they had been to grammar school.

That would gave been more about expectations and aspirations, though, it would have been possible. I'm not from the East End but my parents both left school at 14 as did my husband's parents but both of us went to university because our parents wanted better for us.

I wore a straw boater for my summer school uniform. I loved it. It was so fun to wear and made for an excellent frisbee!

We had panamas for summer and berets the rest of the time