New series tonight at 9pm ITV - Anne

[Mydoghealsmyheart]

It’s on over 4 consecutive nights I think. Haven’t seen anything about it other than on the tv schedule.

@Knitter99

I sometimes wonder about the other families, this was mentioned briefly in last night's episode. How did Anne become the leading person? Were there other families trying just as hard as Anne to get publicity for their people but somehow she just caught the public's imagination more? Did she try harder, was she more determined, better at campaigning? I feel a bit sad for the other families that this one person is singled out as doing something heroic for her son. And it was amazing, don't get me wrong, but there must have been other families pushing just as hard. I feel for them.

Anne wasn't specifically the "Leading person", it's just that this drama is focusing on her story and she was one of the key members on the board of the HJG and she basically dedicated the rest of her life to getting justice for Kevin.

The issue was, as was touched on in episode 3, that Anne had legal routes that other families didn't because she could categorically prove that her son was alive at 4pm, and therefore the 3.15pm cut off point set by the coroner should not apply. This meant she had the evidence and legal precedent to take her sons case to higher ad higher courts, whereas the other Hillsborough families didn't have the same level of evidence or legal precedent for their cases individually.

When Anne left her position at the HJG it was because she wanted to take her son's case through every legal route possible, but it couldn't be done as a collective effort - they couldn't take it to court as a case of "The 96", which was the purpose of the HJG, to get justice for all of the victims, it had to be done on an individual case basis, and Anne had the strongest case.

The likes of Phil Scraton, Trevor Hicks and Margaret Aspinall have also been very prominent in the campaigning and work over the years - Trevor was the president of the Hillsborough Family Support Group till they decided to disband earlier this year, and Margaret who was the chair have worked tirelessly for justice, and both received honours - OBE or CBEs - a few years ago.

I remember reading in an interview Margaret did a couple of years ago that she always felt guilty whenever she talked about her son specifically as she felt like she was duty bound to represent "The 96" and if she was talking about her son then she was giving him precedent over the others, but that as his mum she couldn't not want to talk about him either.

Just watched them and am crying, I remember watching it happening at the time.

It did make me watch the Andy Burnham speech again. The emotion in the crowd was unbelievable. The emotion on both sides and the fact they all got through the speech to the end is one of the most amazing things I’ve seen. The boos, the cheers, the chants, the claps pure emotion

Trevor Hicks caused the split of the support groups, he only wanted certain people to be involved & wanted all the focus to be on him. He threw out several people including Anne & John Glover

I thought Trevor Hicks seemed a decent guy. He lost 2 daughters after all.

I watched the whole thing (at TV pace) and obviously with Anne with her agenda and everyone else with their own agendas then things I guess would have spiralled and got to a power play situation.

Anyway, it was a good but very sad watch. RIP Anne. I just googled that Daily Mirror photo and my god 😢😢😢
People must have seen the faces of their own relatives dying in that photo.

Oh god, my comment about Trevor Hicks sounds awful, like I’m making him out to be a decent guy BECAUSE he lost 2 daughters. I don’t mean it like that at all! The poor guy’s life was shattered in a day but I always thought he came across very well as a family’s representative back in the day. ❤️ Sarah ❤️ Victoria and the other 95.

@FajitaBonita Exactly, it shows people dying. I think it was totally wrong.

I was only young at the time so I remember it but not well. The programme was exceptional - although it has caused a giant argument between me and my dad
He won't watch it as he says it's not right to blame the police and the fault lies with the people without tickets who pushed in

I did point out if I go to an event, sober and with a ticket and die because "people pushed in" and that ambulance/communications fell apart and I was left to die, would he be looking for some form of justice and got "might have a look at the programme"

Just thought it was interesting what people still think - my dad is 70, and NW based too

They didn't push in the ground. A gate was opened because of crowds of people pushing outside the grounds. But any large event needs crowd control measures.

@RoyalFamilyFan

They didn't push in the ground. A gate was opened because of crowds of people pushing outside the grounds. But any large event needs crowd control measures.

Oh I know that! I watched the programme Just saying I was 4, and obviously knew about it but not in detail so the programme filled in the gaps for the stuff I didn't know Whereas my dad, who was well aware of it, is sticking with the pushing in the ground rumour, and it made me think how many other people have their own set views on it

This was not just emotional and painful to watch, but a real eye opener. It's such a tribute to the efforts of the victim's families, and their struggle. It was hard to watch. I cried all the way through, but I know so much more about it now

FajitaBonita If you read Kevin Sampson's book it tells you what happened & why the support groups split up. Trevor Hick's marriage ended as well, Jenni Hicks has a book coming out this year as well .

I only caught the last episode of this series, and found it very moving. Also, the drama documentary which Christopher Ecclestone appeared in was gripping and upsetting. Those deaths were avoidable and it was terrible the way that some sections of the media seemed happy to put the blame onto fans misbehaving, and implied that it was due to many fans being drunk (they even tested the deceased children for alcohol in their blood). It's shocking that certain key people in charge of that event never admitted their mistakes or poor decisions - I don't know how they could live with themselves.

West Midlands Police were as bad as South Yorkshire, they even tapped the victim's families phones.

It was heartbreaking.

I watched a couple of episodes then watched the BBC documentary which is on IPlayer which was shocking beyond words, absolutely disgusted at how the whole match was mis-managed, all those lives that could of been saved. Absolutely horrific.

That photo is horrific but also a very much needed piece of evidence in social history. You can actually see Kevin in the photo. He's clearly alive, and next to his dead friend.

It showed right there, at the time, that people were dead and dying and the police were either doing nothing or pushing them back in (although obviously that particular photo doesn't show that happening, it shows there was certainly no rushed effort to get dying people out of there).

It was thanks to footage and photos that eventually the truth was told.

It also shows the power of the work of people like Philip Zimbardo and Stanley Milgram. The police told fans who were pleading for help that they were "just following orders". The police behaviour was horrible, no doubt about it but its case in point about how we obey authority even when we can plainly see that the right thing to isn't being done.

Not only were phones tapped but "BT engineers" went to the families houses and "did checks" on the phone lines. It was police bugging them. Yes, really. Not only that but Sheila Coleman was followed by plain clothes police. Fact. She told me herself.

That is shocking
Why were such huge steps taken to cover it all up? Who was being protected? Or was it anti liverpool?

I goggled The Mirror picture, i understand why they released it bring home the true horror of that day, I don't think I've ever seen anything so graphic made me feel sick to my stomach

It was to protect the police (top brass, they'd have thrown the bobbies under a bus), the FA who held such a big match in a stadium whose away end was known to be far too small/not enough turnstiles, the council, no safety certificate etc...

Establishment arse covering. It was a bonus to them that it was predominantly Liverpool families, the Tory government hated them. Duckenfield gave a bad order to open gate C without anybody directing the fans to empty pens, he realised what he had done and the cover up was underway while people were still dying.

He said fans rushed the gates, so to perpetuate that lie he refused to let a fleet of ambulances which were OUTSIDE onto the pitch as he said they were still "fighting". Initially it was thought 41 could have been saved but the estimate is closer now to 58 (I think) there were ambulances outside (keep letting that sink in).

Kids like Kevin just needed a tracheostomy. He died, as did many others when they would have survived.

How is that not manslaughter? Easy. They were Establishment. The law doesn't apply.

There was also evidence that pointed to Freemasonry. That may sound conspiracy-ish but it WAS an actual real life conspiracy. Remember these families researched and looked for evidence for decades. They knew their stuff.

If there had ever been one single, tiny bit of evidence of drunkenness or violence or fans pissing on coppers or robbing the dead they'd have published that shit everywhere. They didn't, because there was none.

These were genuinely, utterly innocent people. We all knew. Just took 20 odd years to get them to admit it when there was nowhere left to hide. Mind you, people still believe the lies.

@Rummikub

That is shocking Why were such huge steps taken to cover it all up? Who was being protected? Or was it anti liverpool?

The police were covering up their gross negligence. Thatcher's government helped as they owed South Yorkshire Police for their assistance in the Miner's Strike. Plus friends in the press (i.e. The Sun newspaper) who viewed English football fans as the enemy at that time and stuck up for the police.

In a way I can see how and why it happened under Duckenfield's watch. He had zero, none, no experience of being the commander of big games. I'd imagine his social class particularly at that time would mean it unlikely that he'd ever been to a game as a fan either. So he knew (although he should have made it his business to know) nothing about how fans and stewards deal with getting into a stadium.

If you didn't know that (and due to the political and social climate of the time - he briefed the coppers before the game to expect trouble and thought mass trouble could occur if fans didn't all get in on time) I can totally see how opening the gate might have seemed a good idea.

But where he really, really fucked up was by letting them die. Self preservation was higher on his agenda than the men, women and kids he could SEE were dying.

Identifying loved ones by photos was horrific. But I'm not sure what else they could do. They couldn't let them view all of the bodies and it would be difficult to tell from a written description.

What is the mirror picture?