Bringing up baby- part two on NOW!

[Megglevampire]

Can't wait to see if CV is wearing joggers...

I reckon one of the main reasons that Daisy Goodwin is enamoured with CV is because she is just so impressed with the fact that CV was Mick Jagger's and Mark Knopfler's nanny.

It's just celebrity worship. Very sad but very common amongst those meeja types.

Hi Poobah and all
I spoke at length to the NSPCC - the guy I spoke to also said "good point" a few times. Quite honestly, the more this goes on and the more that the media are failing to give a platform to anyone other than FSID (cot death) rather than a serious person talking about the risk to brain development for touch deprived babies, the crosser I am getting with the NSPCC. What a missed opportunity this is for them to really address the issue of child neglect head on. At the end of the day, this is not about 'routine' it is about the harshness of forcing a baby to be emotionally independent of parents from day one.
I am seriously thinking of writing to complain to the nspcc. They can do something. If this was paedophilia on the screen they would act. How the hell can they try and get money from us by running adverts showing a child abandoned in his cot "Miles has learnt that no-one comes whether he cries or not" and when it happens in real life, on our screens, they say they cannot do anything. Rubbish. More complaints me thinks - sadly this time against the organisation that is supposed to protect children.

No time like the present! I have sent the following letter to the NSPCC.

Dear Sir / Madam

I spoke at length to both your duty manager and your public relations person last Wednesday regarding child protection concerns raised from the Channel 4 programme Brining Up Baby. I was quite surprised that, despite this being the second week of showing this programme (which has caused serious public concerns about child neglect and safety) the people I spoke to from your organisation seemed woefully un-informed both about the programme and also what could be done to protect babies from Claire Verity, the so called Maternity Nurse. I was told that ?there is nothing you can do? and that you would be issuing a press statement at the start of this coming week. I have since seen an email that you sent to someone else saying that you will not be commenting until the series is finished.

I have been a supporter and donor to you and Childline for many years. I am deeply troubled by your lack of swift action on many levels. How on earth can you run TV adverts that show a baby left alone in a cot saying ?Miles has learnt that no one comes whether he cries or not? and when there are real instances of this happening to real babies on TV (and potentially other babies through the airing of such methods) that you are so slow to make any definitive media statements to explain the serious developmental effects of emotional abuse nor take any actions to protect actual children?

Claire Verity has referred to day old infants as manipulative and called them ?it?. She has made parents leave them in a pram for 3 hour stretches in the garden regardless of any distress shown. She has taught them not cuddle the newborns in between feeds, not give any eye contact during feeds and put them in their cot, alone in a room (with the door shut) between 7pm to 7am, ignoring all the babies cries. She teaches them to only cuddle the babies for 10 minutes a day. My instinct tells me this is wrong. My professional background (social work) and much research tells me it is neglect, a form of child abuse under the Children Act 1989, that may well cause significant harm to the child?s development.

What these babies are being subjected to (and the fact that this method was being normalised by being shown on TV as a valid way to raise a baby)is now well known to cause damage to brain development (read ?Why Love Matters? by Sue Gerhardt for a good summary of latest brain development research). The consequence of this is not visible within 3 months (the length of Channel 4's 'experiment') but the impact can be profound - including severe depression, anxiety and personality disorders, problems with attachment and relationships and other serious mental ill health. This is well known by anyone in the childcare field who is competent and up to date (unlike it would seem, Channel 4?s medical advisors). I would have hoped that the NSPCC would have jumped at the chance to challenge this silent form of child neglect that has been provided by this programme. Instead, the only experts that seem to be given airtime are the FSID reps who make no point at all about emotional abuse and neglect. In addition to the PR / public education / media ethics being raised by this programme, I do think there are also child protection referrals with regards to the two families shown on the programme (I understand full well the vulnerability of new parenthood and my concern is more about Claire Verity exploiting these parents by getting them to go against their instinct in the quest to ?get their life back?). By the end of programme two, one set of parents was clearly referring to their 2 week old infant as manipulative and attention seeking, as if the baby was ?bad? for having needs and expressing them by crying. Any parent insisting on using these methods who were being assessed by social services would be failing. Any childminder using these methods would be struck off by Ofsted. Why is it not a child protection issue simply because it is on TV? If we were seeing televised paedophilia, I suspect that the child protection / safeguarding wheels would have started turning very quickly. Why is this form of abuse being treated differently? It is not given any different status under the Children Act ? emotional abuse is a clear category under law. I was astounded when your child protection helpline said to me that ?the NSPCC cannot act unless a member of the family is making a referral?. That is nonsense. I, and others on the various parenting forums, would like to see this taken up as a child protection case.

I am so frustrated that I have not heard members of the NSPCC on the media on such programmes as Five Live and BBC breakfast ? I don?t know if you have heard these interviews, but they are simply giving more airtime to Claire Verity and her methods - and turning this debate into a ?routine? v ?no routine? issue ? it is not about routine. It is about the serious neuro developmental damage done by her advocating a ?no touch / no responsiveness? approach to parenting that forces a newborn to be emotionally independent of its parents from day one in order to prove ?who is boss?. This is abuse. I am a new mum and all my mum friends are talking about this programme ? I am not exaggerating to say that every single one I have spoken to (and it is running into the 30?s) are deeply upset and distressed by it. I am now doubly distressed by the fact that the national organisation that should be speaking up for the child and against child cruelty is being so silent and seemingly ineffectual.

You may be interested to know that your name is coming up on mumsnet ? an online network of thousands of mum?s ? and it is not in a good light, for the reasons I have outlined above. Please act now - both for the sake of children and to restore your credibility in the eyes of your supporters.

I look forward to your reply.

gm, really good letter....I saw one typo...you wrote Brining up Baby, instead of Bringing....just mentioning it because it always looks better to send this kind of letter perfectly spelled, etc...am not a pedant or anything, lol!

You are making some really good points there

oh, and you mention the childminding ofsted thing...oddly, am pretty sure that the mum that said it was the mum that does childminding for a profession, so, I do wonder actually how much this programme is impacting on her life right now, and how it will impact when it's time for an ofsted visit, etc...

Wow that's brilliant.

Gorgeousmum, what a brilliant letter, you have drawn the points together very eloquently indeed. Will you also please send the letter to Ofcom? (it may be too long for their online form)

I was the person that emailed Five Live with regards to the issue of abuse and the e-mail was read out. I was really annoyed that Claire Verity stated that 'it was very sad that I had taken the time to write an email like that" and that I didn't know what abuse is. Victoria Derbyshire just didn't have the knowledge to persue the questioning.

I am horrified that all the hard work that regulated professionals and agencies working in childcare (Social Workers, health visitors, Nursery Workers etc..)do to protect children and provide the best start in life is just being totally disregarded by the media.

Very nicely writen gorgeousmum.

CV's methods viewed to me as abuse. And worst bit is I'm sure vulnerable new mums not knowing where to turn will take that as a valid option. If they want a routine there are less heartless ways of getting it and I think C4 shoudl have cared more about the babies and less about the ratings when 'trialling' them.

Poohbah - i heard your email being read out, and you can at least take comfort from the fact that CV was momentarily floored by your (IMO) very eloquent wording. you're right though, Victoria whatsherface didn't follow it up well, nor did she have the interviewing skills necessary to deal with people like Daisy or Claire. you need John Humpreys or Jeremy Paxman for that. or i'll do it for free!

gourgeous - that is a fantastic letter, very eloquent and concise. you will have to let us know if you get a response.

i emailed the VD show to say how disappointed i was about the way they dealt with DG and CV and didn't get a reply at all. i'm not surprised, but i am disappointed. god knows why.

Hi everyone, I have just read in yesterday's Observer that Gina Ford has written a complaint letter to the NSPCC protesting againgst Claire Verity's method.

As we all know, we can't discuss Gina Ford on this website but I guess it's OK to inform you of this article.

media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,,2185366,00.html

For me the danger of the Daisy Goodwin article is that it seemed to make CV look reasonable. After all there is nothing wrong with routine, wanting sometime with your partner, putting the baby in its own room or getting the baby out in the fresh air, per se. (I know that the advice is to have the baby in your room for 6 months but some people can't cope with that and if they make an informed decision, on the whole it won't cause any damage).

The problem lies in the fact that she doesn't mention the extremes that parents are meant to go to - sticking to routine regardless of the baby's distress and leaving the baby unattended for hours outside regardless of the weather. She also doesn't mention not cuddling or interacting with your baby, which goes against every instinct of motherhood, not making eye contact and being so detached from the child that it is OK to call the baby 'it'.

Daisy Goodwin may have taken out the bits of CV's methods that suit her but in reporting this she has not told the whole story and it is a deceptive articles to those who haven't seen the programme and who are now wondering what the fuss is about.

Incidentally I can't see how a baby would end up more content in the long term with this kind of regime. There are several studies that show that babies who are responded as soon as they cry with cuddles and attention from the time they are born and afterwards, actually cry much less than babies who are not responded to so quickly. The investment in keeping your baby happy in its first few months is certainly worth making. I think, although I can't remember the details, that this has implications for mental health later in life too.

I think that the responses by Channel 4, Daisy Goodwin, etc have really missed the point.

The suggestion that it is only 'cot-death charities' who say that babies should sleep in the same room as the parents for the first 6 months is just not true. From the minute I got pregnant every leaflet and piece of advice I received from every health professionals I met advised me to do the same. There is also research stating that babies who sleep in their own room are nearly twice as likely to die from SIDS.

The other advice I felt that was drummed into me was that 'breast is best' and that feeding on demand was the best way to get this established. 4 hourly feeds just do not allow for this and I am sure I have read that new born babies have died after being subjected to 4 hourly feeds if breast fed.

I have also heard the arguments that 'it is not illegal', 'it hasn't harmed me', 'it used to be done, and recommended by, loads of people', etc. Those arguments sound strangely like the arguments in support of smoking. Now I could never imagine a programme when people were advised to start smoking being allowed on television.

Another argument is that 'it works very quickly' - well so does torture but that would not be allowed.

Another argument is that 'their parents are continuing with it' - people who are brainwashed into cults and extremist groups continue with what they are doing - it does not make it right.

It makes me so upset and angry and scared for all those tiny babies of parents who have watched the programme, seen the 'success' and subject their lo to it.

In the first episode a baby was crying and CV said something like I'll show you how to handle a baby and then she held the baby in a particular way and the baby stopped crying. I really felt that the baby stopped crying through fear then she said something like 'see, that's how you handle a baby'. It made me very upset.

My biopsy was clear pheeeew! Thanks everyone for your support, I have never been so scared in my life and burst into tears when I got told the good news, thanks everyone for your lovely messages

booby that is awesome
I am so pleased
Had been watchign this thread for you hoping for good new s

Fantastic news

Just to let you know that I posted a copy of my email to the NSPCC on teh Channel 4 Family forum. After 12 hours, it has been removed. Unbelivable!

Hi Gorgeousmum
I feel a bit of a fraud here cos I'm a dad and this is my first post. But I am a member of the Association for Infant Mental Health and it's me that started the e-petition at 10 Downing Street petitions.pm.gov.uk/parentingshows/ - thanks for all the support there.

I posted your letter to NSPCC to the AIMH list and Sue Gerhardt replied saying... (and I quote) "Can I also add that I found the letter to the NSPCC very powerful and wonder if you can give its author some positive feedback from us?" I'd like to add my support to that as well. A very well constructed letter.

I am working hard on my blogg trying to get some science and sense into the debate about Claire Verity so it doesn't end up as another of these how to parent discussions. There are very important issues at stake here which you have raised. I've said eleswhere we each need to comment where we can, reaching the widest audience we can. As position statements or press releases are made available I'm trying to get hold them to post them on our site - www.socialbaby.com/shop/page.asp?id=CVhome
Our own statement is there. More coming. My blogg is socialbaby.blogspot.com/

Time is so short, and part 3 is on tonight (CV starts weaning at 11 weeks and says she doesn't care what WHO - World Health Organisation - say). I break down the show and blog it, so I'm not sure how often I can keep up here. This is a majorly hectic list!
Love what you're all doing. Keep up the pressure.

Message withdrawn

Channel 4 removed your post georgeous mum?

Good work so far Clive. Welcome to mumsnet.

I have e-mailed the CEO of Ofcom, my concerns below:-

To: [email protected]

Dear Mr. Richards,

I, like many other mothers and concerned viewers have complained to channel 4 about the programme Bringing Up Baby. Channel 4 are not taking our concerns seriously. Claire Verity does not have a parenting method. She is an unregulated person with dubious qualifications, she may have worked with children for years but that does not make her an expert. She would not be
allowed to use those methods as a Childminder or in a Nursery as her
"methods" are unacceptable and defined as abusive. She refers to babies as
"it". She states that very young babies are "manipulative". She tells the
parents not to give them any affection and the parents were following her
method, withdrawing affection from their babies. She leaves them to cry for
4 hours, outside and with the door shut so the parents can't hear them. She
advised the parents to not meet the baby's emotional and physical needs. She
told the parents that the babies should not sleep in the same room and I
don't accept Channel 4's voiceover " Some experts believe this doubles the
risk of cot death" is good enough. It is no defence againts this poor
advice. She against breastfeeding in order to break the bond of affection
between mother and baby. She has handled the babies roughly and on the 3rd
programme we witnessed her force feed a sleepy baby, roughly shoving milk
into his/her mouth in order to make the baby sleep better. The baby
regurgitated the milk as their tiny stomach was obviously full. This
programme has not only caused the babies in the programme harm (although the
true harm that this programme may manifest itself much later through an
eating disorder or depression) but may cause many babies harm in the
community should parents decide to follow her methods. The fact that Channel
4 showed the programme to some professionals does not excuse the content of
the programme. I would like to see evidence of their level of experience and
training in child protection, if any. I like many other people feel that
the programme does contain scenes of emotional abuse, neglect and now
physical abuse. I am disgusted that Ofcom can't do anything about this
programme and really worried that this programme has been aired on
television at all. Apart from the actual abuse witnessed, the general advice
and underlying message about breastfeeding is so bad that many parents will
be left with the impression that formula feeding assists a baby to sleep
through the night which is untrue. Breastfeeding rates in this country are
already low and this programme undermines the advice of many health
professionals who are trying to increase breastfeeding within this country.
Finally, the programme presenst itself as an experiment but for ethical
reasons researchers would not be able to conduct an experiment like this as
it is wholly unethical to do so.
I would like Ofcom to ensure that Channel 4 or any other UK channel never
produce a programme like this again.

Hi Poobah - yes they did! I read the rules and cant see I've broken any so assume it was to close to the bone for them.

Great letter to Ofcom. When oh when will any of these orgs start actually responding? Next year probably.

And thank you Clive for the encouragement. You are doing a great job - keep going.

First Bulgaria's Abandoned Children and now this. Am getting quite soapboxy in my dotage. This is what I wrote to Ofcom, not very eloquent but there you go.

Just to add that dts1 looked a little like that NSPCC child which is why it affected me so much!

I keep willing the 70's mentor to do something dramatic and effective during one of their debates. I was seriousl sleep deprived when ds was tiny and I can see how tempting it is to have someone say 'I can make it happen'. If only there was more familial support then mums would not be so bloody exhausted and apt to do anything for some rest.

the comment that most annoyed me on this week's was about mia being a baby who if you gave her an inch, she'd take a mile. if you were feeding me f-all for lunch then stuffing me at dinner, keeping me awake for hours and not giving me a cuddle when i was crying, i'd take a bit extra everytime i was allowed as well....
but suprisingly, this week, i didn't get (too) angry until the next week bit right at the end when mia's mum was doing an uber-smug face when telling the others that she slept 7-7

We must keep complaining and then continue to keep the pressure up until something is done by someone, somewhere.