White House Farm - The Bamber Murders. Jan 8th ITV 9pm

[Dogleg]

Is anyone else planning to watch this six part series? I vaguely remembered the killings and on seeing this advertised have now lost hours to reading up about it online and have also downloaded a book about the case. I’m really looking forward to this one!

www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-25/itv-drama-white-house-farm/

As for the number of bullets, I think JB's team realised it was an issue and that's why JB pushed the idea that Sheila was downstairs in the kitchen when she first shot herself. It put her closer to more bullets etc. However it was never plausible that after the first shot, she walked upstairs with the rifle, went past the boys' room, round June then shot herself a second time in her parents' bedroom. All without getting any blood smears from anyone else on her and without smearing her own blood all over her night dress and leaving a trail over the house.

The hitman theory - would a hitman really have killed two young children? I know morals and ethics aren’t really their area and my knowledge of them is limited to In Bruges, where Colin Farrell shoots a child by accident and has to disappear, but still.

Agree with a pp about Colin Caffell, he seems a decent man and I think has defended Sheila against the tabloid smears.

I doubt Julie or Colin will expect JB to ever be released. But even so, I don’t think it’s likely they would stay in touch with him or that he could make contact with then.

Julie married a Canadian and now lives over there.

Colin lives in Cornwall.

Both have said on record that they fear Jeremy’s release.

My guess is that Jeremy will be less than happy about this new dramatisation, particularly as it doesn’t paint him in a good light at all.

Without carrying out research, I also suspect that June was not going to use the phone that left the blood trail halfway around the bed and back. I suspect June was shot but then saw Jeremy ready to shoot Sheila and she was walking to him to get him to stop when he killed Sheila and then turned back on June who then retreated but was shot again fatefully. Sheila may have ran into her parents bedroom instinctively, like a child would run to parents to 'save' them. This is when her Dad would have managed to escape the room to try and call for help, he was killed either last or just before the boys who at such a young age would have slept through any commotion.

I too believe the silencer was returned to the house later, particularly due to it being stored in a plastic bag so as not to contaminate another area with evidence I. E. His house

Rapid actually that would have been a good reason for June to try to get round the bed or to try to protect the twins.

iirc the CAL book mentioned the possibility of JB wearing a mask. I can't help but think he would have wanted his family to know he was the one murdering them.

If Bamber took the silencer away and brought it back later why on earth didn't he clean the obvious blood off it first?

iirc the family thought someone had tried to clean blood off the silencer.

I can't decide if it's plausible he took it away and brought it back or not. If he did, then perhaps he didn't wipe the blood because he thought the narrative was 'Sheila killed them with the silencer on. Then took it off, went upstairs and decided to kill herself.' At that stage, I don't think the police realised Sheila had been shot with the silencer on because they were still treating it as a murder/suicide.

Why wasn't there a trail of Neville's blood round the side of the bed? I didn't see one. Or did he get out of the bed on the same side that June was found on?
I really should get the book, assuming there are details like this in it.
I still find it very mysterious that-
Even with the silencer the children didn't wake up.
Sheila was somehow persuaded to sit up and be shot under her neck.

Even with the silencer the children didn't wake up

Children ime are very deep sleepers. And he could have shot them first - we don’t know.

somehow persuaded to sit up and be shot under the neck

I think if a madman (we don’t know whether she knew it was JB or not) was pointing a rifle at you after just shooting your mum and dad you’d do whatever the hell he said!

Did they do a tox screen on the children? One of JB's 'murdering fantasies' was drugging his family and setting the house on fire.

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes I know children are heavy sleepers but apparently the silencer wouldn't have made the shots silent, then there's the struggle downstairs. If the boys were shot first then how come June and Neville were still in bed when shot subsequently? It'd be interesting to know how loud the shots would have been.
Even if the killer did force Sheila to sit and then he shot her it must have been a very awkward position to get into and maintain.
Anyone know what the bloodied material in the buckets was?

I think:

Maybe the boys were shot first - apparently they definitely hadn’t woken up - then Neville and June heard something and got out of bed. JB shot Neville, injuring but not killing him, then shot june dead. JB could’ve then gone out the room to sheilas room (thinking Neville was dead) but she went through the other way into her parents room possibly after hearing the commotion. JB then realises Neville has gone downstairs and followed him down, where they have a scuffle and JB shoots him again. He then went back up to kill sheila who had gone into her parents room through the door in the twins room (which seems likely as her feet were clean) OR he could’ve shot sheila (in the neck at close range) before going down to kill Neville. Then went back up to realise sheila unconscious but alive and shot her a second time.

I don’t think the blooded rag in the programme was relevant - just a rag that’d been used to clean up - It was used as a way of Ann Eaton discovering the broken window latch I think as she was letting a fly out.

I have read that the Anschutz really isn't that loud anyway, even without the sound moderator.
Kids have been known to sleep through fire alarms so I don't find it hard to believe they could sleep through gunshots. Also their room wasn't directly next to Nevill and June's according to CAL's plan, there's a box room in between. And old houses often have very solid interior walls.

One of the hypothesis did say JB shot the boys first. But just one shot each - to kill them.Then he went back later after Nevill and June were dead, and fired the other shots in the boys' room to feed into the 'crazy person shooting indiscriminately' story.

Sheila didn't have to be maintained in position. She only had to be pushed down and shot once. Possibly, she did resist a little and that's why the first shot was off centre and didn't kill her.

The more we chat about this, the more I'm struck by how ruthless someone would have to be to kill them all in close range in cold blood. It's chillingly callous.

I read that the blood on Sheila and her nightgown indicated that she's been sitting up initially. If she was made to sit up unsupported and have the gun down her body while JB fired she would need to maintain the position for a bit. Also he would have had to be kneeling or squatting down to fire the gun. He must have thought that through in some detail beforehand. Horrible.

Tonight was disturbing. Bamber pretty much outed himself with his creepy behaviour. Selling the photos was bizarre.

I agree - just discussing it on here makes you realise what a deranged person he is. To do that for money. I think he’s convinced himself he didn’t do it - and this is why he’ll never get out.
I wonder what his psychologist makes of him?

I think the blood was inside the silencer so perhaps not reachable in the short time JB had.

The blood in the bucket was mentioned on here earlier that it was Sheila's knickers. I'm not sure if that was based on facts but the narrative was that Sheila had gone down in the night to soak them after starting her period and was disturbed by her Dad with a conversation that then led to the shooting.

JB had some care for the boys in his own way. I think he'd have executed them more humanely. But I do not believe the kids would have woken up too commotion. My kids barely stir when I put their lights on and put washing away etc.

Without any other evidence just the facts that JB had an extremely cavalier attitude to criminal activity, a grasping love of being flash with cash, a resentment toward his family and hoped to inherit made the instant and total demise of his family far too convenient.

Did he ever manage to sell the photos? Where are they now?

Without any other evidence just the facts that JB had an extremely cavalier attitude to criminal activity, a grasping love of being flash with cash, a resentment toward his family and hoped to inherit made the instant and total demise of his family far too convenient.

This^

Also, him calling his girlfriend at 3am to say, 'it's all gone well' or how ever he phrased it. What had, 'all gone well.' Why was it so important to call at 3am ? That's usually only for dire emergencies. He only mentioned there being a problem at the farm at the end of the brief call.

Did he make that phone call from his own house ?

When JB was arrested and heard the evidence against him I wonder what his, 'oh shit, didn't think of that' moments were. I realise he'll never confess.

I don't think he sold the photos. The newspaper ran the story of him trying to sell the photos instead (which was very principled and canny of the paper - it was a much better story and they could take the moral high ground).

Watching on catchup now. Not really loving the flashback stuff it's getting confusing

Yy Noeuf I agree. Some dates on the flashbacks would have been helpful. I'm still catching up. Did Julie confirm Sheila's hands shook on that medication? I didn't realise she knew that too.