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White House Farm - The Bamber Murders. Jan 8th ITV 9pm

859 replies

Dogleg · 30/12/2019 21:04

Is anyone else planning to watch this six part series? I vaguely remembered the killings and on seeing this advertised have now lost hours to reading up about it online and have also downloaded a book about the case. I’m really looking forward to this one!

www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-25/itv-drama-white-house-farm/

OP posts:
SouthWestmom · 06/02/2020 11:48

I've just read JM sold her story for £250,000 before moving.

I feel like that's really immoral. Maybe it's not true.

DuckWillow · 06/02/2020 12:50

Julie Mugford did sell her story but not sure in the amount. Don't think it was as high as £250k.

She used it to part fund a flat in London (1986 prices) and to travel. It's how she met her husband.

Not her wisest decision but Jeremy was going to sell his story if he was cleared.

LordOfTheWhys · 06/02/2020 13:08

It was £25k. JB had agreed a similar deal apparently.
This episode seemed to imply Julie knew details that hadn't been released. That would definitely have helped to convince the police she was telling the truth.

SouthWestmom · 06/02/2020 13:46

Radio Times says £250k but £25k sounds more likely

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-01-29/julie-mugford-white-house-farm/amp/

I don't think JB selling his story excuse JM.

AppleJane · 06/02/2020 13:58

Julie Mugford doesn't come out of this looking good whichever way you see it.

And certainly not someone that should be teaching children. The cheque book fraud alone should have put an end to that.

If she knew for a year that JB planned to murder his family then is she responsible in some capacity? I understand why police do deals but it's still distasteful.

SouthWestmom · 06/02/2020 14:23

I feel like that. It's the murky Maxine Carr territory again

AppleJane · 06/02/2020 14:33

It's the murky Maxine Carr territory again

That's exactly what it's like!

UntamedWisteria · 06/02/2020 14:49

She used it to part fund a flat in London (1986 prices)

I bought a 2-bed flat in Zone 2 on a long lease at that time for £83k. I think it's more likely she got £25k.

Marcipex · 06/02/2020 14:54

I’m sure it was reported as £250 000. So worth about three times today’s value.
I thin she’s a piece of s*.

Marcipex · 06/02/2020 15:20

How the aunt and cousins could move into WHF I do not know.

LordOfTheWhys · 06/02/2020 16:10

I genuinely don't think any media would have offered £250k in the 1980's that's equivalent to £800k today. It wasn't an international story.

Noeuf I didn't mean JB's deal excused JM's - just that the media were trying to make deals with everyone.

I was surprised there wasn't a conspiracy or abetting charge. But, I guess since JM didn't know when it was going to happen; didn't know how it was going to happen; hadn't seen JB being violent so could feasibly say she thought it was all talk; plus JB had told her enough false details to impact both her credibility and accountability. All of that puts her in a different place than Maxine Carr.

Ironically, JB's attempt to be clever backfired on him again. If he'd told JM everything surely she would have faced charges too? But he seems to give people some true information / some false information so he has plausible deniability.

SouthWestmom · 06/02/2020 16:20

I don't know isn't there some sort of obstructing a police investigation charge? Honestly I cannot imagine knowing this or suspecting it and keeping quiet until I was dumped. If he'd stayed with her he'd have got away with it. Bet he is kicking himself he didn't just do that.

Yeah I get the media were after stories, that's true.

Maxine Carr is a similar murky area - I'm still not sure what she was meant to know/not know and how much she did know all along. That picture of her and the car boot is pretty damning but I think she said she didn't know. Wasn't it just providing a false alibi in the end? JM is not smelling of roses in this at all. Both appear to have put men before morals.

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes · 06/02/2020 16:29

I don’t believe JM really thought JB would go through with it - and then when he did she panicked. He didn’t actually say he’d done it himself either - he kept it quite ambiguous and changed details (saying it was a hitman etc). He said things like “I should’ve been an actor” when he and JM were alone in the bedroom and told her details that the “hitman” had apparently told him.
I suppose she was very much in love with him, maybe even a bit infatuated - and scared. She probably tried to convince herself he hadn’t done it as once she made that call to the police her life as she knew it would be over. Also remember she was pretty young and possibly quite naive.

LordOfTheWhys · 06/02/2020 16:33

Yy no wonder Colin went round to her house.You'd want to try to understand why she'd kept it secret. I don't understand why she didn't go to the police. Then again, she told her friends and they didn't go to the police either.

The only tiny excuse would be if she was frightened but from the TV programme, the book, even her own statements - it doesn't seem as though she was terrified.

But how could you identify the bodies, especially the twins, and not think 'I need to tell the truth'?

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes · 06/02/2020 17:14

The other possibility is that she was looking forward to benefitting from JB’s inheritance too. In the episode last night he took her to the farm his grandma lived at which he would be inheriting (“if his plan went right” I think he put it) and made comments about “imagine me and you here with a few kids running about”. I think someone mentioned upthread that Vaulty Farm is a beautiful place.
He sold her a dream and then dumped her. Maybe she was willing to go along with it and tell herself he didn’t really do it - then when he ended the relationship she had nothing to lose.
I think he thought he could send her on holiday and she’d forget about it all!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 06/02/2020 17:15

I still find it strange that Bamber doesn't seem to have any previous history of violence. Usually when a murder (whether terrorism, family annihilation, or for gain) is reported on the news and they know who did it you just know that there will be family, ex girlfriends, ex friends coming out of the woodwork testifying to previous violence, generally domestic, and you can often see the escalation, starting with animals through to girlfriends and mothers.
I have been expecting to come across that in relation to Bamber with all the books and interviews that have been published about him but the only specific thing in his past seems to be someone who knew him as a boy saying he liked throwing sticks at water rails.
You would think if he had habitually been violent to Julie she would have mentioned it to the police, particularly given she needed to explain why she hadn't come forward before.
It's one of the things that is making me continue to feel uncomfortable about this case, despite the forensic evidence regarding Sheila and the fact that Bamber's call to the police put him in the frame.
It just seems such an extraordinary thing to be capable of doing without any practice or experience of violence. Being a small time drug dealer and burglar isn't remotely in the same league.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 06/02/2020 17:19

And of course, if Bamber had no history of violence it's not that surprising if Julie didn't think he was serious/capable of it.

BentBastard · 06/02/2020 17:22

I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe she thought it was all talk before the murders occurred. I don't think anyone would expect her to go to the police then.

But when it happened, any claim that she still might not think he was involved is ludicrous.

I agree with above poster saying that she was fine to go along with it when it benefitted her but happy to tell when it no longer did.

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes · 06/02/2020 17:25

JB seems more of a cold, calculated and ruthless type though rather than an emotional/aggressive person. He ultimately did it for financial gain - even the way JM said he listed the reasons for doing it I.e. his parents were old anyway, sheila was crazy and the twins were going to grow up damaged and be a millstone for Colin. It was all very much thought through and probably planned for quite a while.

I did think some of the stories of things Jb supposedly did in the book by CAM are telling of the type of person he is too - putting a bag of live rats in June’s friends car, driving at speed over and over again towards June on a bike, driving at 60mph with a girlfriend on the bonnet of his car and then laughing when she was upset, general cruelty towards animals at the farm, tipping a load of potatoes into a ditch in a strop and then leaving his dad and the farm workers to pick them up. Just really nasty, spiteful behaviour. It’s maybe more chilling in a way than A man who hits his girlfriend. It’s more like mental abuse.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 06/02/2020 17:33

I didn't see the bit about cruelty to animals on the farm - is that in the CAL book? It's exactly the sort of thing that would make me believe him capable.

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes · 06/02/2020 17:37

Yes, there are a few bits in the book where CAL has interviewed childhood friends. Apparently he would make sheila cry by tormenting chickens etc, whacking them with sticks and things. He also apparently couldn’t stand June’s dog crispy and told Neville to shoot him! Just spiteful stuff really.

Aworldofmyown · 06/02/2020 17:55

I'm pretty sure Vaulty Farm is now a wedding venue and yes, very beautiful.

LordOfTheWhys · 06/02/2020 17:59

Family annihilators don't always have a history of violence. Sometimes the murders are their first violent act. It's usually about control and appearances and status. The latter fits with JB.

So although I understand Julie thinking it was just talk - until it happened- it does fit with the family annihilator profile that he didn't have a known history of violence. Apparently family annihilators usually talk about it too. But most people assume they're idle threats.

AppleJane · 06/02/2020 18:53

Are jurors allowed to speak about a case once the trial is finished?

Did the two members of the jury who did not feel the case was proven 'beyond reasonable doubt' ever give their reasons publicly for that?

Some of you might also be interested in Barrymore: The body in the pool, 9pm Channel 4 tonight.