White House Farm - The Bamber Murders. Jan 8th ITV 9pm

[Dogleg]

Is anyone else planning to watch this six part series? I vaguely remembered the killings and on seeing this advertised have now lost hours to reading up about it online and have also downloaded a book about the case. I’m really looking forward to this one!

www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-25/itv-drama-white-house-farm/

His answer to that is that he was driving at the speed limit, and the police had told him not to do anything till they got there.

Even in 1985 I would have assumed that BT could have traced a call to see if a phone call was made from WHF to JBs house.

Each call to each phone number would have been listed as part of the bill as normal.

Therefore, there would have been a record of the call made to JB's home phone number from WHF, because it would have to have been paid for when the bill arrived in due course. If such call was made.

Did JB run out of time on the night of the murders because he wanted to get back to his cottage a mile away on his pushbike under cover of darkness and it was summer meaning dawn would break at around 4am ?

Each call to each phone number would have been listed as part of the bill as normal.

I don’t think itemised bills were available in 1985

Itemised bills weren't standard in 1985.

In the pub scene in the last episode of WFM, we saw a man with them who was referred to as a mercenary and reference made to a plunger I think ie he was a plumber. This ties in with the person JB named as the hitman he had hired, although a different name was used for him in the programme. I have read that he had a cast iron alibi but I have not so far established what the alibi was. Does anyone know?

Article here from 1986 about the possible introduction of itemised phonebills. books.google.co.uk/books?id=rYIJJP7audkC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=bt+itemised+phone+bill+launch+date&source=bl&ots=vdfGLOGpdb&sig=ACfU3U0MyDByb_gF6EmDvtbHoQGPWDQTmw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzsNfB5LPnAhXmQ0EAHXkZBQsQ6AEwGnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=bt%20itemised%20phone%20bill%20launch%20date&f=false

Witham to Tolleshunt Darcy is 20 mins now by car - back then it would have been longer as its pretty rural.
His house was five minutes away - why did he not go and wait nearby? You wold if you were terrified for your family.

So far as I can remember, in 1985 you could only trace where a phone call came from if it was done whilst the call was ongoing.

@50but17inside His cast iron alibi was that he was spending the night with his mistress. Numerous people saw him and could vouch that he was there all night.

Were any fingerprints found on the gun and the silencer ? Who did they belong to ?

Sorry off topic but I read the other day that the cousins still live in the farm house . I honestly can’t imagine any circumstances that would lead me to live there. How do they shut those images from their minds every day. I don’t think I could even go in that room where those poor little boys were killed.

Toearly I also thought that there was red paint from the silencer from the mantle piece suggesting a struggle in the kitchen but that hasn’t been mentioned in the drama at all.

ToEarly the gun had a fingerprint from JB and one from Sheila. I don't think they got any prints from the silencer.

Pea yy there was a flake of red paint on the silencer that matched all the layers of paint on the mantle piece.
JB found a photography expert who said the scratch on the mantle wasn't visible in the crime scene pics implying it was scratched after the murder. But they haven't released the photos to support that claim.

Plus, and rather bizarrely imo, JB's team claimed they couldn't see the resulting other flakes on the ground in the kitchen in the crime scene pics hence leapt to the assumption they weren't there. Considering there had been a struggle, there was glass and sugar all over the floor, I've no idea how he expected to see flakes that could even have been walked out of the scene altogether by the murderer.

Re: the silencer:

peapod - it was mentioned in the programme “there’s something red on it”. I took this to mean the paint.

JB said he’d been out shooting rabbits - if so wouldn’t the silencer have had his fingerprints on it? If it didn’t have any - that makes it certain someone had cleaned it surely?

Plus, and rather bizarrely imo, JB's team claimed they couldn't see the resulting other flakes on the ground in the kitchen in the crime scene pics hence leapt to the assumption they weren't there. Considering there had been a struggle, there was glass and sugar all over the floor, I've no idea how he expected to see flakes that could even have been walked out of the scene altogether by the murderer

I agree, clutching at straws!

peapod I agree regarding the cousins living in WHF - however the farm, and several other farms in the area are part of a legacy owned by their grandfather (June’s and Ann eatons mums father) and part of a family business. Maybe they felt it very important to keep it in the family?
Maybe they worried if they sold it it could become some kind of ghoulish “murder” attraction. Or be turned into something they wouldn’t like. It’s about keeping control of their family business/legacy I think.

Also Anne Eaton comes across as a very level-headed person, someone who is able to keep her emotions in check and be pragmatic about such things.

The family didn't own the farm. They were tenants. The Eatons had to apply to take over the tenancy. I remember Ann's brother saying he found it odd that she lived there. He said he couldn't do it.

In the CAL book, it said the police came back (during one of the appeals iirc) to do further testing of stains at the farm and I remember thinking how could you live there knowing your family's blood is still engrained in the floor. I don't think I could do it.

A few interesting points here. The silencer, having no prints. That indicates that it was wiped deliberately, presumably so no trace could be found. Why would Sheila do that, if she was shooting herself anyway?
The farms ownership- I stand to be corrected but I think the farms tenancy was suggested in one of the previous episodes?? Suggesting it wasn’t owned by Mr Bamber snr.
Regarding anyone living at WHF, I guess some people are not put off by previous murders in a home. Keeping it in the family maybe one reason.
The house that was in the Amityville horror, similar story to this ( Ronald Defoe? shot his whole family dead whilst they were in bed) is still standing and numerous people have lived there ever since. Obviously it’s a bit of an attraction to people too, as it was such an infamous tragedy followed by films and books.
Not sure I’d like to live at WHF though.

lordofthewhys - I’ve just started reading the Carol Ann thingy book and in this it says that the grandfather owns/owned all the land/farms and passed them onto his daughters - Ann eatons mum lives in another one called Vaulty farm - where did you hear they were tenants?
Agree I wouldn’t want to live there though!

ShesGot it's in the CAL book. She doesn't really clarify it till nearer to the end but if you're reading an ebook then you can search 'tenancy' and it brings it up. White house farm was owned by a trust. Nevill was the tenant (even though he did own other land, cottages and buildings).

JB tried to keep the tenancy after the murders but had to apply to the trustees. Ann applied for it too, and the trustees decided it should go to Ann. Ann's brother said that Ann's husband wanted more land to farm and Ann wanted a bigger house so it suited them from a practical pov.

The gran (June and Pamela's mum) owned and lived at Vaulty when the murders took place and then left everything to Pamela (Ann's mum).

Before the murders, apparently JB loved Vaulty and he hoped to inherit it and live there. (It is a beautiful building and setting). It was one of the many areas, him and Ann were in competition.

Ah, yes you’re right - I just went and re-read it! Makes you wonder whether she applied partly to keep it out of JB’s clutches.

The other thing about White House Farm is that there had already been two separate suicides/violent deaths of previous residents there!

Does anyone else think the house they have used for the TV series is too pretty? I have always found WHF a little bit bleak and creepy looking, which I think is partly the setting and partly the colour, unlike the warm red brick of the TV one.

countess

I thought the same - and looks too modern and well-kept also (from the outside anyway). I also noticed during the scene in the outbuilding when the police were going over what had happened with JB there was an IKEA Kallax unit in the background! I’m pretty sure these weren’t around in the uk in the 80’s! Just being pedantic though as otherwise I think the 80’s set/clothes etc are pretty darn good (in fact I’m sure my db had the same wallpaper in his bedroom that is in JB’s living room!)

TheCountess yy including the other suicides in the book seemed quite creepy!

I have seen some photos were WHF looks quite pretty. But there are other pics, where it looks quite severe and isolated.

Bit young to remember the mid 80s but it does seem they got most things right with the fashion and cars. It is mostly in a rural setting so I suppose a lot of these English villages haven’t changed that much.