White House Farm - The Bamber Murders. Jan 8th ITV 9pm

[Dogleg]

Is anyone else planning to watch this six part series? I vaguely remembered the killings and on seeing this advertised have now lost hours to reading up about it online and have also downloaded a book about the case. I’m really looking forward to this one!

www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-25/itv-drama-white-house-farm/

(Excuse typo at the end, my own mistake.)

Oh I see. I disagree though, I think it was all very well thought out - and that would tally with his psychopathic personality. I just googled 20 signs of a psychopathic person and it certainly seems to describe JB!

The checklist’s 20 items include: glibness/superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, need for stimulation/proneness to boredom, pathological lying, conning/manipulation, lack of remorse/guilt, shallow affect, callousness/lack of empathy, parasitic lifestyle, promiscuous sexual behavior, early behavior problems, lack of realistic, long-term goals, impulsivity, failure to accept responsibility, many short-term marital relationships, juvenile delinquency and criminal versatility.

BitOfFun

Does that rule out the possibility that Sheila shot herself once? (and someone else shot everyone else)

How many times would a woman need to reload and shoot a gun before she breaks a nail? What about a man?

@ShesGotBetteDavisEyes no I thought in the series that Colin had the boys buried but wanted SC buried with them. JB said no to that but said the ashes could be buried with the boys’ bodies

"From long to very long" and "on her toenails".

Why the assumption she would break or chip a nail doing it? I've loaded and shot a rifle (though admittedly not mid-murderous rampage) and I never broke a nail?

The boys were definitely buried.
My nails break just making a cup of tea.

It’s so confusing isn’t it, such a lot of things to remember!

I find it odd though that JB would tell JM he’s going to kill his parents and then piss her off so soon after he does actually kill them?! Surely that’s got ‘she’s going to tell the police’ written all over it. And if JB did kill them and made up the whole phone call thing then that’s also bizarre because he comes across as a well educated guy not particularly lacking in common sense so surely it would’ve been best to keep things as simple as possible.

I did wonder whether or not it was possible that he and Sheila were working together. That maybe he had convinced her to kill everyone, (stoking up hatred of the mother and things) but he was there, perhaps helped with the reloading, keeping NB at bay etc that would mean he could say he didn’t kill them and be telling the truth. Or is that too far fetched?!

Enjoying this thread, very thought provoking.

Beyond, because this particular rifle was very stiff to load, especially as it got to the last few cartridges, and even an expert they got to demonstrate it broke a nail himself.

Or is that too far fetched?! I'm not sure anything is too far fetched at this point!!

I am finding that when I watch the drama I'm constantly asking 'according to who' about the scenes we're seeing. Everything has to be someone's interpretation.

Take JM identifying the bodies. You could see that as a ghoulish thing for her to do or you could see it as someone trying to spare others the pain of doing it!

Everything about this case is contradictory isn't it.

Sorry to derail from the theories.

how awkward do you think it was with the absolutely stunning Cressida bonas and the guy who played prince harry in the Windsor’s

even an expert they got to demonstrate it broke a nail himself that was convenient! (sorry, couldn't resist)

that would tally with his psychopathic personality

You missed off the ability to pass a lie detector test. And yes, he has.

How many of the 20 on that checklist do you need to be a psycho? (asking for a friend)

'I find it odd though that JB would tell JM he’s going to kill his parents and then piss her off so soon after he does actually kill them?'

By that point, after she's gone weeks without telling anyone, he might have thought she was so heavily implicated herself by having gone along with the lies that she wouldn't drop herself in it alongside him by giving him away.

The moment you would reasonably expect him to be very worried was when the police car is sent to fetch her on the morning of the murders. At that point (and I think Scott Lomax makes this point) how does he know that having up to this moment not really thought he was serious, she's not now going to go 'omg you really did it, you evil fucking psychopath' and give him away?

I can believe in his coercive control of her being the reason it takes her so long to come forward, but for him to be so confident she won't blurt it all out that he is happy for a police car to go and get her when it's just happened? Hmm.

Lord I’m sorry I can’t remember much about what I thought at the time I’m afraid as it’s so long ago. I do remember thinking the whole thing was such a tragedy.

'I find it odd though that JB would tell JM he’s going to kill his parents and then piss her off so soon after he does actually kill them?'

The other sides version of events is that JB never said that to JM.

There is some suggestion JM did a deal with police to get away with a cheque book fraud she had committed. She got paid, I think, £25k selling her story to the papers.

It wasn't sensible to upset Julie but there's a pattern of JB having people onside then alienating them - Colin; Julie; two journalists who supported him; someone who ran his campaign. He might not be able to help himself. It may be more important to him that he isn't 'beholden' to anyone.

Also, I think he deliberately gave Julie some incorrect information so that if she told, the police would question if she was lying eg firstly she thought it was a hitman, she got wrong the number of times Nevill was shot, etc.

The problem was the other tangential people whose statements about JB tied with aspects of Julie's.

Just pondering the hitman theory - surely if that was the case JB would’ve made sure he had a perfect alibi by having his girlfriend stay over or something? That’s one of the main reasons people employ hitmen surely?

Some more info about how difficult to load that rifle was.

Thecountess I think Colin Cafel said that Sheila would have done whatever JB told her, especially if he told her the boys were at risk.

Not sure I buy the hitman theory. Wouldn’t JB have confessed that by now? Seems too far fetched to me. And why leave a silencer at the house? Leaving evidence..Why wasn’t this found by the Police FFS?
Jeremy Bamber always has confessed his innocence but he would wouldn’t he? He has nothing to lose and all to gain.
I feel so sorry for Colin Caffell. Lost his whole family. So sad seeing picture of him with the boys. How did this poor man find the strength to carry on?! Just so awful.

Another point regarding the conversation JB reckoned his parents a had with Sheila in the night it all happened about putting the boys into foster care - well it just sounds like a load of rubbish.
Colin Caffell had main custody of the boys anyway and it sounds like he a was a good, competent father. So why on earth would sheilas parents start talking about putting them into foster care - as if the boys father would’ve allowed it! They wouldn’t have had any authority whatsoever to do something like that. And also surely June and Neville would think that very a very shameful outcome for the family what with being so religious and respected in the community.
It doesn’t make sense - just sounds like a crap excuse Jeremy came up with as a reason to why things might have kicked off.

JediJim yy I think if there had been a hitman, JB would have blamed him. I think the hitman story was either JB playing with different scenarios eg he also suggested drugging them and setting the house on fire. Or it was him slowly acclimatising Julie to the idea of his family being killed. So it started with a hitman because it was one step removed from him killing them; likewise the drugging/fire suggestion meant JB wasn't actually there when they died. Shooting five unarmed people (never mind your own family!) at point blank range (in a premeditated way not in a sudden anger) is very cold and ruthless.

I thought the boys had already been in foster care at one time?

Just had a look at the police call log from the night of the murders. The first call shows Sheila's age as 26 (presumably given by caller to police). The second call shows her as 27.

Doesn't that suggest if two different callers made those calls, one of them has misremembered her age or if both calls were made by the same person (JB?), that's a clever bit of forethought/deception.