White House Farm - The Bamber Murders. Jan 8th ITV 9pm

[Dogleg]

Is anyone else planning to watch this six part series? I vaguely remembered the killings and on seeing this advertised have now lost hours to reading up about it online and have also downloaded a book about the case. I’m really looking forward to this one!

www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-25/itv-drama-white-house-farm/

That's interesting waltzingparrot and as most facts in this case could be used as proof for either side!

😂 evil pea!

If I remember correctly JB did start spending a lot of money after the deaths including using his parents credit cards fraudulently . His gf gave strong evidence finally that he'd told her he'd done it. He didn't really show any remorse but when the tv cameras etc.. were on him at the funeral he sobbed openly and was almost collapsed but out of public view folks said he showed little grief. I'm sure the most mentioned evidence was something to do with the phone line.

I think the phone calls to the police were one from JB. He phones the local police and they then phone a more central number to pass on the information given.

It therefore looks like two calls made but was in fact just one. The police gave that information during the trial.

Really when all is said and done we have to remember that Jeremy has had several appeals where all this has been considered. I believe the last appeal court judges said that rather than the evidence being weak they felt that it was very strong and more convincing than ever of his guilt

If we hang everything on physical evidence (which was lost due to the mismanagement of the crime scene) then many more people who murder would get away with it.

Look at the Margaret Fleming case , no body, no physical evidence at all but masses of circumstantial evidence and the carers lying repeatedly....just as JB did.

Duck I was talking to my brother (who is a criminal lawyer) about WHF and he mentioned the Margaret Fleming case too. He said the recent programme on it was excellent. Did you watch it?

Oooh I watched the Margaret Fleming case! There’s a thread about it

Melted I haven't watched it yet. It was just yesterday that DB recommended it. Once I do, I'll have a look for the thread

Why was Taff Jones so convinced from the start that it was Sheila? Was it to get a quick result? I know forensics and police procedures were different in the 80s but it sound like laziness to blame a dead woman who had mental health problems.
He was reluctant to look at other avenues, atleast that’s how the programme makes it look.

Why was Taff Jones so convinced from the start that it was Sheila? Was it to get a quick result? I know forensics and police procedures were different in the 80s but it sound like laziness to blame a dead woman who had mental health problems.
He was reluctant to look at other avenues, atleast that’s how the programme makes it look.

This^. Yes, exactly.

I wonder about Taff Jones' insistence. He seemed to have an excellent record up until the Bamber case. But I think he thought he was faced with a locked room mystery so it had to be Sheila. Once they knew there were other ways people could get in - the kitchen window; the bathroom window, etc - , and he'd intereviewed Julie, it seems his view did change.

But he hasn't changed his mind yet and they know about the window already

purple yy I know, he seemed reluctant to back down. Possibly because it was so high profile. But at least he got there eventually.

Plus they know about the kitchen window but (in the programme) they don't know about the bathroom window and JB hasn't admitted to climbing in the bathroom window to access the house yet. I wonder if the programme will show Taff changing his mind. I don't think the CAL book said that he changed his mind. Other officers have said it. So it depends how much the TV programme is based on CAL's book.

Why was Taff Jones so convinced from the start that it was Sheila?

It wasn't just the locked house though. I think we also need to include in here that although 4 members of the family clearly had been murdered, Sheila died in such a way that it looked like suicide.

Experts say it is possible to shoot yourself twice. She wasn't drugged and had no restrain marks so if she was murdered it's harder to imagine how that might have played out.

I'm still on the hunt for official court documents but please can we remember that the ITV show is a dramatisation! On another forum I saw an argument about how long it took the policeman to answer the phone and was more interested in picking up his coffee cup (as if they actually believed every single detail in this show happened that way!!)

Well as far as I’m aware it’s only Colin Caffell who has any input into this production, who was involved in the case. Is JBs girlfriend still alive? What about his cousin? Who didn’t benefit from the Bambers estate? Is the farm still there?
We don’t know the actual conversations of what was actually said, it’s being dramatised for the programme. How can anyone know what anyone said to anyone?
Sadly ,I can imagine JB being all smug in prison like he’s some VIP.

Julie Mugford, now Julie Smerchanski, is living in Canada and worked as a teacher but apparently then went on to hold some managerial role in the local education authority. The farm is still a working farm and as far as I’m aware, Ann Eaton still lives there having moved her family in some months after the murders.

Ok thanks Alexa, I had a quick google on Ann Eaton. What gets me is a few things, such as the crime scene being contaminated almost as soon as the Police arrived on scene. Also, JB was what appears to be an intelligent guy. Why would he leave the silencer in the house? Why wouldn’t he have disposed of it somehow, he had lots of land to do this? Surely he wouldn’t leave vital evidence?
Secondly, why wasn’t the silencer found by the police? Surely not an easy thing to miss?!
And Stan Jones contaminating the silencer when he goes to the house to see it. He doesn’t put it in an evidence bag.
JB stated that the silencer was planted by the family to pin the blame on him.

Maybe JB had to leave the silencer in the house, otherwise it would be noticed that it was missing? Though you would think that he would have at least cleaned it. Or maybe he did but he didn't do a very good job.

Wasn't that just because he didn't have an evidence bag on him as he wasn't expecting it?

JB stated that the silencer was planted by the family to pin the blame on him

Where would they have got hold of it though? They didn’t go to the house until after the murders. Why would they have it? I agree he probably cleaned it but not well enough and then put it back because it would’ve seemed strange if it was missing. He would’ve been better off putting the silencer next to sheila though wouldn’t he? So it looked as though she’d taken it off to shoot herself. I don’t understand that bit either.

What about when JB called the Police round to the house immediately after the shootings, didn’t he say to the policeman that he could see someone in the window? Did the policeman see anything? Was this simply a diversion tactic?..I suppose the only one that knows the horrific events of that night is JB himself. And I believe he’s guilty but there are lots of people who don’t think he is.
Despite appeals, he has been unsuccessful and Essex Police hasn’t opened a new investigation, so presumably no one else has been seriously suspected.

Yes I wondered about that too, I thought It was the policeman Who thought they saw someone and said “get down” but then it hasn’t been mentioned again!

I recall reading:

There were two silencers. In fact, they are not silencers like the illegal ones you'd expect a hitman to use. They are sound modifiers (for hunting rabbits)

The first silencer was taken as part of the evidence by the police. The second was found by the cousin's family in the gun cupboard once they had access to the crime scene.

The two silencers merged into one in the minds of the jury.

The blood on the silencer handed in by the family was said to be either Sheila's, the Uncle's or belonging to rabbits.

There were flakes of red paint on the silencer matching scratch marks in the kitchen. These scratch marks were not present in the crime scene photos.

It's suggested that, believing JB to be guilty but looking like he might get away with it, the extended family decided to 'strengthen' the evidence on the silencer.

I wonder why now after so many years ITV have made this? I also wonder if this will have any effect on JB himself, such as another appeal. I suppose we’ll see how the rest goes...

But how would the family have gotten hold of the bloody silencer?