Gentleman Jack

[unique1986]

BBC 1 9pm

Well well well

I don't think she's any more predatory than any other drawing room buck of the period.

I has no idea that was her aunt! I think I get it now.

I'll have to keep a closer eye on receiving lines at weddings, now that I know people use them to inflame each other with sapphic lust in full view.

But a woman of the landowning classes of that period, even an unconventional one like Lister, wouldn’t be walking any distance, she’d be on horseback or driven in a carriage

I'm reading the diaries at the moment and it's striking that she walked an immense amount. The whole family did. She eventually buys a gig of her own but around town she walked, often in terrible weather, as a daily matter of course.

She was well aware that local people thought her 'odd' and she was routinely asked 'are you a man?' as she walked around the town (as seen yesterday when the little boy asks her this). At one point she records a man trying to grab her clothes and shove his hands up the back of her dress. She was harassed and sent unpleasant letters. Yes, she could be brusque and undoubtedly very difficult but it's clear that she was highly intelligent and massively frustrated by the huge limitations of her class and society.

I highly recommend the book which accompanies the series- it really sheds a lot of light on her character. Fascinating woman.

Thank you, Bit. I might order that and read it when the series finishes. I never read the books before watching a film or serious as I end up picking holes in the story. 😁

I'm just catching up and really enjoying it. She is a complicated and not completely likeable character. Talking to camera makes sense to me given they are portraying her diaries.

You can’t judge her by modern standards. It was such a different time

Yes this is the golden rule of any historical research but even when we judge AL by the standards of her own time, she does not come across as having much sympathy for her tenants, servants or labourers. The real Listers were not the cosy benevolent family they appear to be in the drama and the 1830's were pretty tough times for everyday people in the area. I'm not sure this is being portrayed as accurately as it could be

But having said that. Something else I'm enjoying are the little jokes and humerous bits. Anne's snobbish pretensions about her Lister family heritage and her sister bringing her back down to earth and so on.

'erm but it IS a farm' (cows mooing the background )
'Henry V and the battle of Agincourt'
'you mean a shed'
'I'm a lady...a woman...a ladywoman...'

I'm not keen on the love story side of it, find it a bit boring, but I like the family dynamics and the 'trouble at t'mill' and coal mine parts and will keep watching for that reason

To be honest Flaxmeadow I don’t know much about Ann and her family. I suppose I was just speaking generally.

Howwudufeel

I know quite a lot about the history of the area but that's only because I'm from the North and history is a hobby. But you are absolutely right when you say we shouldn't judge history by modern standards.

I imagine the town will be inundated with foriegn tourists soon, if the online reactions to the series are anything to go by. It has so much more history than AL and Shibden Hall. An industrial history, even rebellious at times, but it's also a very scenic area as well. Interesting place.

I’m northern too with coal mining in my family. I know how exploitative the industry was but just don’t know too much about the Listers.

I'm watching it because I'm interested in the story but I think it's really badly acted. They're hamming it up for all they're worth and SJ is unwatchable. Scenery is nice though ( it's not far from us) and I like the 4th wall business, in fact it would be more effective if there was more of it IMO.

Anne Lister was unconventional and brave, but also very conservative in many ways. She valued her religion, and craved the social standing, freedom and independence that money could bring her. She also yearned to settle down in a faithful monogamous relationship consecrated by God. Setting her cap at a pleasant heiress whom she believed she could be happy with for life doesn't make her any more 'predatory' than the average ambitious Victorian gentleman. The self-acceptance she had for her sexuality seems astonishingly out of her time, but it didn't mean that she was socially progressive in other respects: she had very traditional views about her responsibilities as a land-owner, and shared many of the Old Tory attitudes of her class.

What I find most interesting and inspirational about her is the passion she had for knowledge and improving herself. She was a complex and fascinating character, and I think that Gentleman Jack is portraying this very successfully.

I think SJ is great - confident and assertive. Seems she’s marmite to everyone!

Setting her cap at a pleasant heiress whom she believed she could be happy with for life doesn't make her any more 'predatory' than the average ambitious Victorian gentleman.

No, that doesn't, but I think the way she persued some of her other liaisons and wouldn't always take no for an answer does. It's behaviour she probably wouldn't have got away with, had she been of a lower class. (Not that we're ever likely to know, as those of lower classes would be less likely to have had the education or time or privacy to write extensive diaries about it.) She's a fascinating mix of convention and unusual.

I'll have to keep a closer eye on receiving lines at weddings, now that I know people use them to inflame each other with sapphic lust in full view.
All I could think of was the queue that must be forming behind the bride

I really enjoyed it again. Yes of course mainly persuasive overacting and all that striding about, but we are seeing a snapshot of AL's life and style so has to be exaggerated to have impact.
I'm finding it very entertaining. Looking forward to her jaunt to the Lake District.

I should love it but - meh

Happened to glance at the closing credits on Sunday, and noticed they have what is intriguingly called an 'Intimacy Coordinator'.

What the heck is that?

Some sort of sex scene choreographer, I imagine!

Yes, I think so. They are increasingly used to look after the emotional/psychological health of the actors and to help to ensure that the staging of sex scenes is done with sensitivity and respect.

This is an interesting article about their role, if you can bear with the fifteen second advert before you can read it.

Heads up for anyone interested in the book BitOfFun recommended - I just noticed it's on a Kindle Deal today at 99p. Bargain!

Just downloaded it, thanks!

HildaTablet

Thanks for the 99p heads up. Downloaded it. I looked the other day and I think it was over £3.

Thank you. Just bought it.

I don’t like it and I really want to

SJ is no way fluent enough to break the 4th wall and is just so wooden. She looks uncomfortable in the role at all. I am finding Anne very predatory and manipulative which is leaving me cold towards her. I’ve felt the same. I’ve felt the same towards male characters in period drama pieces so it’s not the sex thing. I do feel that when men are behaving that way in similarly placed dramas (Collins or Wickham in Pride and Pejudoce for example) it is mostly portrayed as a negative behaviour and I’m not sure whether this is the case here or not. It’s a shame because I’d really interested to know more about Lister and the remarkable side of her which I think is probably being played down in the series. I’m not sure if I’ll stick with it. I’ll try!

Goodness me, apologies for typos. Not much attention being paid today obviously!!

Try the book, Betty.