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The Nights Watch. GAME OF THRONES. SEASON 8 EPISODE 5. May 13 UK. SPOILERS AFTER 2am.

999 replies

OneInAMillionYou · 12/05/2019 15:55

So, now we battle for King's Landing and the Throne.

The penultimate episode of this most epic of tales. Can Cersei survive? Will Euron catch on and wonder how Tyrion could have known of the pregnancy? Will Arya and the Hound beat Jaime in the race south?

As ever, no leaks or spoilers please until we watch the episode live together. Our Watch begins....

OP posts:
SweetSummerchild · 14/05/2019 21:43

I so wanted to see that Valyrian Steel armour!

Even the Silence just reminded me of the Black Pearl!

Northernlurker · 14/05/2019 21:45

MAYbe Bronn and the crossbow can off the dragon.
Would give that nonsense some point.

NunoGoncalves · 14/05/2019 21:46

I think a lot of tv reviewers haven’t been paying attention

I disagree. I don't think being a bit ruthless with some lords counts as signposting that she's going to brutally murder hundreds of thousands of women and children. Not after so much more of her character development was based on what a compassionate person she was.

It's like they had a timeline for believably turning her mad that needed another 5-10 episodes, but then they realised "oh shit we only have 3 episodes left. Better kill one of her best friends/servants and make her not eat for a couple of days. Yeah, that'll do it".

AnotherEmma · 14/05/2019 21:48

😆

NunoGoncalves · 14/05/2019 21:51

I've figured it out. She was just hangry.

SweetSummerchild · 14/05/2019 21:52

NunoGoncalves re-read all her POV chapters and/or re-watch the entire series with the premise that she is the villain of the story. I did this 3 years ago and the signs are all there. They may be subtle, but it would hardly be any sort of shock if she said to herself ‘one day I’m going to destroy King’s Landing’ in her first chapter.

LaurieMarlow · 14/05/2019 21:52

She was just hangry.

Grin

Well we’re all murdering, rampaging bitches when we’re hangry.

CaptainBrickbeard · 14/05/2019 21:53

I get really irritable when I’m hungry. For me, that’s totally convincing character motivation for burning a city to the ground tbh.

NunoGoncalves · 14/05/2019 21:55

SweetSummerChild my perspective is all from the show, I haven't read the books. As I said, it's not that some signs weren't there. It's just that it was too rushed at the end. There needed to be something more before she reached this point, some more nuanced development.

Unfortunately the same can be said for almost everything that has happened in this season.

NunoGoncalves · 14/05/2019 21:56

We've all heard the saying "never attack your enemy's city on an empty stomach", right?

Lweji · 14/05/2019 21:59

MAYbe Bronn and the crossbow can off the dragon. Would give that nonsense some point.

Wasn't part of the point showing that Cersei really was that monster, capable of arranging the murder of her own siblings (and lover).
Why they tried to save her after that is what's odd.

fedup21 · 14/05/2019 22:07

I hope we see Bronn again!!

JasperRising · 14/05/2019 22:08

Maybe the Americans were on to something having the previously on game of thrones recap with those quotes listed by a pp - the show is so long running that it is easy to forget some of the early signs that she was going to end up burning Kings Landing. Certainly if, like me, you didn't binge watch them all in the run up to season 8.

yumyumpoppycat · 14/05/2019 22:14

My problem with TV Dany is that her actions are coming across a bit 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' even if it is obviously more complicated than that, it is a little disappointing. The way she tried to kiss jon then said let it be fear when he rejected her.

ChanklyBore · 14/05/2019 22:37

Ok so I have been reading carefully and thinking about this a lot and here is my tuppenceworth.

Firstly, Cersei’s death, and the prophecy. Cersei died buried under the Red Keep. Despite my thinking she was going to tumble from the top of it with Jaime, linking it to Bran’s fall at the very beginning, instead they got buried. Which is actually OK, and cleverer than it looks, I think. Here’s why:

If you buy the valonqar theory, that says three children you will have, and lose them all and when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

She was pregnant with a fourth child but it would never be born. She was forced to watch her city burn, the tears ran down her cheeks, then crushed to death by her own palace with her little brother’s hands about her throat (sent by her other little brother!) I’m not seeing anything but a prophecy fulfilled, there.

Cersei dying down in the vaults is pretty much exactly where she would not want to be. How she hated being packed away with the women and children when war was raging, how she drank her way through the battle of the black water. How much would she have wanted an end worthy of a song, if it had to be an end? She loved Jaime. And that moment when she saw him was relived, yes it was, and well acted, but it was also pivotal because she didn’t want him to be there, not really, not for his sake. She didn’t want him to die alongside her whilst at the same time recognising that it was always going to be that they died together (as they came in to this world etc etc etc) If you were going to write an end for Cersei, and you really wanted to punish her - I’d suggest having her watch her entire city burn, know that she is lost, know that she is out-manoeuvred, and have her crushed to death alongside her brother, begging for her life, would be a good way to write it. Not to mention finding the body of the dead queen cowering in the vaults as the city burned.....

agirlhasnonameX · 14/05/2019 22:45

I think I'm a bit lost with what some people wanted Dani to do that would be a satisfactory build up tbh. I knew this was coming from pretty early on.
She has her home taken from her during a power struggle from the throne, she lives and is raised by an abusive, mad brother, is married, raped and falls pregnant very young. She looses her child, the man she loves, is betrayed by her only tie to Westeros, she understands that slavery is an injustice and tries to break the chain, she does well for a time but breaks cultures apart and makes morally questionable decisions. Imagine if Ned had nailed traitors to planks of wood (not that they didn't deserve it, but he just wouldn't have). We see flashes of her desire cross to anger when it comes to taking the Throne. She has to be reined in by her advisors. She burns the Tarlys and co. Then when she finally makes it home, looses the only people she has left, one by one, another man with a claim to her Throbe and another trustworthy advisor betrays her. She looses her dragons, her 'children.' She has tried to fight her instincts to anger and instead show love and compassion yet she is given none back. She is now where it all started and has realised mercy and justice and love count for nothing, they have found her nothing. If I was her I might do the same.
If the build up had been bigger and more obvious than it was I think it would have totally flatlined when it happened. I knew it was going to, but there was still a part of me that kept questioning it.

ChanklyBore · 14/05/2019 22:51

As for Varys and why Tyrion decided to dob him in (even though he told him in the first place) - Varys was trying to poison the Queen and was sharing what he knew via raven. She was betrayed, and Tyrion had to do something, as at that point he was still supporting her (he was still trying against evidence to believe she was all good)

She really did have to barbecue Varys, to be fair.

I think that Jon has to step up to the throne. He has to to save everyone from Dany. He’s seen that. And the first thing he has to do as King is to sentence her to death. As we know, if he passes the sentence he must deliver the blow (although Arya will offer!). I think it could go down that way. I have a theory that if Dany dies, so will Drogon. Or, he will try to dracarys Jon and Arya will slay the dragon.

Then Jon will either

  • rule uncomfortably in a Stark-y way with Sansa as warden of the north/queen in the north/possibly ask Arya to be his Hand.
  • Renounce his claim and go north - function fulfilled regarding the lord of light etc. And be reborn as the next night king...
LaurieMarlow · 14/05/2019 22:58

A lot of people (including me) didn’t pick up that Varys was plotting to poison Dany in that first scene.

With that context, the dracarys is more justified.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 14/05/2019 23:27

I think when (not "if" imo) Dany dies Drogon will just fly off, never to be seen again.

I'm more interested in what the remaining Dothraki and Unsullied will do if someone murders her.

Leontine · 14/05/2019 23:34

Oh boy....what a mess.

Have no problem with Dany’s character arc, they’ve been sowing the seeds of her being unfit to rule since season 1*, but like most people have said it’s been way too rushed. It’s like they’ve 0 - 50mph in the first 7 seasons, then gone from 50 - 100mph in 5 episodes, which under normal circumstances is just half a season. You can’t do that and expect people to be okay with it. Whether they’re Team Dany or not. (I’m not and never have been).

Having Varys go from the Master of Whispers to hEY joN wAnna Do A tReAsOn in literally 5 minutes was fucking ridiculous,

But undoubtedly the worst thing about this season, and ultimately this episode was the complete character assassination of Jaime. I think out of all the characters he’s had the clearest path of becoming a better person as the series has progressed but in the last 1.5 episodes the writers have been like “hmmm nope, he’s still the lazy, vain fuck boi he’s always been”. Perhaps that was GRRM’s plan all along, but at least make it believable. Don’t have him fall off a cliff to get there.

There’s so much more I want to say but I fear this post is getting too long already.

  • I’ve seen many Dany fans online saying that she’d never do something like this, but I feel it’s totally in character, they’ve just not done the work to get there.
IHeartArya · 15/05/2019 00:01

Ive been predicting Dani going mad queen for a while. I’m on book 2. Finding it hard going. Read book 1 years ago. Definitely prefer tv over books which is a first for me!

DeRigueurMortis · 15/05/2019 01:50

Jon isn't a king - whatever his birthright.

No more so than Dany (or anyone) when you think about it.

The whole story is about people putting their "birthright" over their care/duty/morals to the rest of the population.

It's a masterpiece of republicanism.

Jon doesn't want (nor has) stepped up to the plate. Both his battle "wins" were determined by Dany or Sansa.

Dany held herself to be "for the people" but when the time came, she's for herself - her ambition, her loss/pain/anger.

Cersei was terrible but actually the only one true to herself. She was ruthless, ambitious and calculating and totally unapologetic about it.

Sansa is the one to watch now imho. She's played a blinder by staying in Winterfell whilst Dany destroyed Kings Landing.

Jon is implicated by his support for Dany so he has to keep following her or betray her. I can't see a good way out in either case (unless Drogon is a factor). He's an emotionally compromised wuss who ironically like Dany isn't listening to the people he should (Dany re: Tyrion/Varys and Jon re: Sansa/Arya).

I'm betting Sansa ends up Queen of the North and Tyrion ruling the south (a fitting "marriage"??).

birdsandroses · 15/05/2019 01:50

A few pages back, there was discussion whether Greyworm and Dany had secretly agreed she would burn all of Kings Landing down even if the city rang the bells and surrendered.

I have watched the episode again and don’t think the script was signalling that. Tyrion and Greyworm stand before her a bit before the battle when she is sitting on the Dragonstone throne and Tyrion pleads that she and the army stand back if the city surrenders and rings the bell. With a bit of delay she nods to Greyworm that she permits the army to stand back if this happens.

Someone said in the following scene where they are in the battle planning room at Dragonstone Dany says to Greyworm you know when it will be time. They interpreted this as an agreement between them for him to not let the army stand down even if the city surrenders . However, she said this sentence straight after saying to Greyworm to wait for her outside the city gates and he will know when it’s time. I took this to refer to it will be clear to GW when it’s time to launch the attack. As indeed turned out to be the case.

I still think when she was sitting on Drogon above the battlements after the city bells rang out in surrender was the moment she let her anger and emotion rule and chose to burn all of KL’s down. I don’t think she had made a firm decision what she would do if the city surrendered until that moment.

birdsandroses · 15/05/2019 01:55

In my post above, I got something wrong the two conversations between Tyrion, Dany and Greyworm happened all in the same scene as Dany is sitting on the Dragonstone throne.

BlackCatSleeping · 15/05/2019 05:37

Is all the wildfire gone now? I'm wondering if could be used to kill Dany and Drogon, or are they immune to wildfire too? It could definitely wipe up the unsullied and Dothraki.

Ah, actually Googling this, it seems there were puffs of green fire seen during the destruction of KL, so I guess it is all gone.