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The Nights Watch. GAME OF THRONES. SEASON 8 EPISODE 5. May 13 UK. SPOILERS AFTER 2am.

999 replies

OneInAMillionYou · 12/05/2019 15:55

So, now we battle for King's Landing and the Throne.

The penultimate episode of this most epic of tales. Can Cersei survive? Will Euron catch on and wonder how Tyrion could have known of the pregnancy? Will Arya and the Hound beat Jaime in the race south?

As ever, no leaks or spoilers please until we watch the episode live together. Our Watch begins....

OP posts:
Prequelle · 14/05/2019 13:35

The show has done such a poor job with such a huge part of the story. They really needed another season tbh. White walker battle season. Fight for the throne season.

ThorosOfMyr · 14/05/2019 13:37

Her whole life she’s been brought up to believe in her special destiny to rule Westeros.

But her older brother Viserys was surely considered the Targaryen heir before Khal Drogo 'crowned' him. So Dany wasn't brought up thinking she would rule Westeros.

God I really should go and do something useful... Grin

Xyzzzzz · 14/05/2019 13:38

I think that’s part of the problem the madness in earlier seasons has been on a slower burn for Dany. Like their have been glimpses but she’s focused on liberating slaves from masters. (I hate this storyline that she’s the mad queen all the good she’s done has gone) But it’s been too slow and now all of sudden they’ve fast tracked it making it seem really shoddy. I’m disappointed with the writing of the last season. The NK was just ended very suddenly and then this...would have been better to either do shorter episodes or a longer season to explain this.

Cersei’s death was a major let down as was Jamie’s character development.

I just say Emilia’s acting has been really good.

PreseaCombatir · 14/05/2019 13:38

Her whole life she’s been brought up to believe in her special destiny to rule Westeros
But she hasn’t though. She may have believed it was the right of her family to rule, but remember in S1, she thought Viserys would be King. She had no intention of being queen until Drogo killed him. She was quite calm when that happened. Is that normal? I know her brother was an absolute prick, but still.
I’m loving all the ‘I’m not so bad now, am I’ Joffrey memes about 🤣

PreseaCombatir · 14/05/2019 13:39

X post Thoros

LaurieMarlow · 14/05/2019 13:39

But she hasn’t though. She may have believed it was the right of her family to rule, but remember in S1, she thought Viserys would be King. She had no intention of being queen until Drogo killed him

Well sure. Her family’s right to rule. Her right after Viserys died.

JasperRising · 14/05/2019 13:41

Thoros but before he died she was brought up to believe she was either to marry him or be married off to get him an army. Either way she was being brought up to have an innate assumption that her family (brother then her) were rightful rulers and that the people were wanting their return. To finally make it 'home' and realise most people either didn't care or actively didn't want her will have been a shock and affected her while sense of purpose. They did lay some ground with people telling her the truth about her father but she still seemed to believe that people would welcome her as different. But life isn't like that as she found out...

JasperRising · 14/05/2019 13:41

Lots of X posts! If she had married her brother which was on the cards she would have seen herself as rightful Queen by marriage.

NunoGoncalves · 14/05/2019 13:43

It's not that there's anything wrong with Dany turning mad in and of itself. As everyone is saying, she's always been shown as ruthless when necessary. But this development was not well paced at all. The rush this season is bad writing, pure and simple.

RussianSpamBot · 14/05/2019 13:44

If it's about the right of her family, Jon's no less a Targ than she is.

ElenadeClermont · 14/05/2019 13:46

Dany has burnt and tortured so many people before (slavemasters, khals). They were not innocent, but still human. Why are people surprised she would flip and burn everyone? The Northern troops could hardly get out.

I was re-reading the part where Kurt Vonnegut writes about his time as an American soldier hiding in a cell with their German captors during the firebombing of Dresden. And when they finally emerged the next day and everything and everyone was burnt to cinders. Very powerful.

CabbageHippy · 14/05/2019 13:48

@JasperRising wtf is a rent a dragon & where do I get one?

Lweji · 14/05/2019 14:08

I have a new theory (or rather possibility): Arya tries to kill Dany as Jon, and Dany/GW kill Arya, then Jon shows up as Arya's face returns...

LaurieMarlow · 14/05/2019 14:14

if it's about the right of her family, Jon's no less a Targ than she is.

Well she’s had 10 years or thereabouts to get used to it being hers. Also, I’m sure she struggles to see Jon as a true Targ at this point. She’s known him as someone else entirely.

NunoGoncalves · 14/05/2019 14:19

I have a new theory (or rather possibility): Arya tries to kill Dany as Jon, and Dany/GW kill Arya, then Jon shows up as Arya's face returns

Isn't it the case that Arya can only take the face of people who are dead? So that wouldn't work.

I liked PPs theory about her assassinating Greyworm at some point then using his face to kill Dany. Assuming Greyworm is easier to get to as herself than Dany.

Then again, given she could silently sneak upon and leap at the Night King when he was surrounded by his best soldiers, I'd imagine she doesn't even need anyone else's face to kill Dany.

bakingisnotforwimps · 14/05/2019 14:43

At this point, I've virtually given up trying to predict how things are going to end BUT if I had to, I think Arya might end up on the Throne (with Gendry?), with Jon and Dany having dispatched each other.

I just think Arya's line to Gendry about not being a lady was telling, she's not a lady, but she could be a Queen. She's seen how destructive Cersei was and how destructive Dany became, she knows how to rule. Also, that last episode seems to have drawn parallels between her and Jon to an even greater extent than before - their attempts to save the townspeople, their realisation that the thing they believe in most isn't going to make them happy, they are even dressed alike with the same hairstyle!

Plus, you know, she's totally bad ass having killed the NK Grin

SweetSummerchild · 14/05/2019 14:44

Daenerys’ ‘rightful queen’ issues run deeper than just believing the seven kingdoms are her/her brother’s birthright. She also believed that the people of Westeros were desperate for the return of the Targaryans and the overthrow of the EvIl Userper and his Evil Supporters. She believed all of her mad brother’s propaganda.

She gave up everything she achieved in Essos in pursuit of this lie. In the process she has lost everything else of importance to her.

‘The people’ aren’t doing what they’re supposed to - in her eyes - so they deserve Fire and Blood in return.

Lweji · 14/05/2019 14:53

Isn't it the case that Arya can only take the face of people who are dead? So that wouldn't work.

It was discussed earlier on. Jon has died before, although he's not a corpse, so his face might not be "available". But he has died.

SweetSummerchild · 14/05/2019 14:53

Re: Varys. I don’t think the show have ever really know what to ‘do’ with Varys. In season 1 (and book 1) he was working with Ilyrio Mopatis to put Viserys on the throne. Later on, this turned into Dany, with a view that he was ‘all about the realm’.

In the books he is not ‘all about the realm’ at all. Later books show that he is actually all about putting Aegon/fAegon on the throne. In fact, his very last action in the books is to murder Kevan Lannister due to the fact that he is creating too much stability under Tommen’s reign and he wants to ‘mix it up’ a little to prepare for Aegon’s return.

Why he was seemingly supporting Viserys at the start of the story seems rather illogical, but he may simply have hoped that the Dothraki would end up killing both him and Daenerys.

Show Varys is just all over the place. If he really was ‘for the realm’ then he should probably have been supporting Renly and/or Stannis and never working towards a Targaryan restoration.

Dropping the fAegon plot sort of left him with nothing to do.

Lweji · 14/05/2019 14:54

Or Arya could become Queen with Jon. They are only cousins.

NunoGoncalves · 14/05/2019 15:00

I'm putting all my eggs in the Sansa for queen basket.
@ me next week!

LaurieMarlow · 14/05/2019 15:01

I’m not sure book Varys is transparent either. I don’t buy the blackfyre stuff, though I’m not sure why I don’t.

I think his motivations are highly concealed and he’s up to his neck in intrigue and the show probably doesn’t know the half of it.

I agree the show hadn’t a clue what to do with him. It’s a miracle he lasted as long as he did.

LaurieMarlow · 14/05/2019 15:03

I can’t see Arya anywhere near the throne, sorry. That’s just not her arc.

She may just disappear into the hinterlands. The scene with the hound was telling. Maybe she’ll follow his storyline in the books and disappear off to the quiet isle or similar.

AnotherEmma · 14/05/2019 15:04

I've been reading this thread since I watched the episode last night but needed some time to mull it over before sharing my thoughts.

It was classic GoT in that it was shocking and brutal, I almost couldn't watch it (although I did, of course) and it was very uncomfortable viewing. Lots of satisfying scenes though, especially when the Mountain threw Qyburn and he went splat Grin

I agree with PPs that it's lost the depth and complexity that it used to have. Sad I think a lot of the theories on this thread are trying to make it more clever and complicated than it is now!

IMO Dany and Greyworm were always on the same page about avenging Missandei's death, but I don't think there was an explicit plan about how they would do it. It seems to me that Dany's rampage was a spur of the moment decision on her part and Greyworm followed suit, but I'm bitterly disappointed in her. Not a huge surprise though as they made it very clear she was going to go full tyrant.

I think it was absolutely stupid that Dany didn't use Jaime in some way. Couldn't they have taken him to the battle as a hostage and waved him in front of Cersei to try and make her surrender and then kill him in front of her anyway?

I loved the scene between Tyrion and Jaime but it was absolutely ridiculous that he was able to let him escape and get away with it.

I think it's right that Jaime went back to Cersei, it was romantic in a creepy way. Although it's ridiculous that he made it, especially as Euron was so sure that he'd injured him badly enough to kill him.

Now I really wish they hadn't gone the whole way with the Jaime/Brienne thing - it cheapens the mutual respect they had and doesn't do justice to her awesome character.

What will Arya do next? I don't think she'll kill Dany, she had her moment with the Night King.

I like the theory that Jon will kill the dragon, that would make sense as I'm sure he'd rather kill the dragon than Dany herself. She would be much less powerful without it.

I do hope Dany dies, she's always been annoying and she bloody well deserves it now.

Tyrion is an idiot, surely he used to be wiser than he has been in the last few episodes.

I'm not sure I care much about any of them any more! I suppose I like Sansa although she's kind of petulant and annoying.

Oh and I don't buy the love story between Jon and Dany (even before they found out they're related!) - just no chemistry and they're on different planets. It seems like he's being unfaithful to Ygrid even though she's dead.

Doobigetta · 14/05/2019 15:27

Jon killing the dragon would work nicely- it would symbolise him choosing his Stark heritage over Targaryan power, and also strip Dany back to nothing. She abandoned her early approach of winning loyalty, because she didn’t need it when she had the dragons, it would be satisfying to see that come home to roost.