Madeleine documentary

[mentallyfacked]

New documentary due to be released on Netflix on Friday.

I've covered this subject quite extensively while I was studying law. I will be watching with a heavy heart, it is just one of those cases I can't let go of sadly.

Anyone else going to be watching?

I think MM was targeted and would have been taken at some point during that holiday. Perhaps when G&K were asleep in the next room?

Was it ever established why the twins slept so very soundly that night? Was it usual for them to sleep like that?

The dogs were trained to only react to blood and cadaver traces. They don't react to anything else. The Portuguese police confirmed no one had ever died in that apartment prior to the McCanns arriving.

Martin Grimes and his dogs are working for the FBI apparently so they must be credible.

The footage where the dogs alerted to the car was telling as the handler nor the dogs knew what car had been hired.

I think that saying it's remarkable that no one on the thread think that parents did it just shows that people don't believe such hyperbole. Of course they didn't kill their own child, if they did, do you really think they would have spent the last 11 years fighting? They would have retired into the shadows and let it die down.

I do think there was a pedophile ring operating in the area and she was stolen 'to order'. The stuff with the strange men knocking on doors and the woman who found a man in the house with her daughter just made me blood run cold.

From the boot sample, 15 of the 19 components were linked to Madeleine. Not exactly evidence but how would that be possible?

I really want to know what are the dogs success rate in other crimes?
Blood sniffing dog results can be argued, small cuts or bruises , nose bleeds . After all three small children were living there . but what about the Cadaver? dogs can detect scent in bodies being dead for 90 minutes.

Well the documentary did a good job of explaining the DNA evidence, or lack of. 15 out of 19 was not significant, because the DNA could have been from Madeleine’s siblings or her parents. Just because the sample matched some of Madeleine’s DNA, it didn’t mean the sample actually came from her.

The dog alerts resulted in swabs and samples being taken from locations in the apartment and the hire car where stains and hairs were found.

However the lab tests were not conclusive - it is not possible now to ascertain whether the DNA obtained from those samples were from MM or anyone else.

MrsCholly what I understood , Cavader dogs detect corpses scent, even very recent ones. so DNA is not that important for this type of dog?
If the crime scene was an open field we can argue that it’s likely that someone died there months, years ago, but to detect it in a closed space? It’s very strange.

Wasn’t it enough DNA for British legal system but not enough for Portuguese system which requires a higher match.

Yes the dogs detect scent, is this case cadaverine and blood - but that isn't really useful as evidence on its own. All that tells you is that dog has detected the odours it is trained to detect, not who the traces were left by.

The dogs are used to pinpoint places so that detailed forensics can be completed and actual evidence found. In this case, although many swans and samples were taken no absolute DNA match was possible.

Wasn’t it enough DNA for British legal system but not enough for Portuguese system which requires a higher match.

No, that wasn't it.

Swabs not swans - that would be weird!

I don't think the twins sleeping heavily is significant. There was a study from a Scottish Uni following the 6/7 children dying in Leicester in house fire (parents started it) as none of the children woke upon the smoke detector sounding.
I've watched all episodes, I haven't discovered if GM when previously checking children actually saw them or just listened. Also, were the other apartments locked as it seems was longer to walk round to the front door and back patio door couldn't be locked from outside. The other parents must have bittersweet thoughts it could have been their child.

Deadwife, the "ask the dogs" Portuguese interview, the interviewer of which now states she's embarrassed about and that she was lied to by Portuguese police? Gerry McCann is an abrasive person who's allowed anger to get the best of him many times.

The problem is people get their "evidence" from comments sections and you tube videos, half of which are based on theories leaked by the detective who was sacked for his handling of the case.

There is no real evidence of what happened- that’s the bottom line. Which is why it’s dubious to come up with any theory. None of us actually know what happened.

There is no evidence to support the abduction theory or stranger kidnapping her from the apartment. My DH has always thought MM wandered down to the beach in the dark.

On the subject of the dogs, something I didn’t know (it’s mentioned in the Maddie podcast) is that the Mccann team, allegedly, made contact with lawyers in the US regarding the Zapata case. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html

Zapata had always been suspected of murdering his wife in 1976 but there had never been a body or any evidence. Eddie and Keela went to the US and both alerted in various places including places that Zapata no longer lived. This was used as evidence in the US court but the judge threw it out. It was this case that gave rise to the bullish statements of unreliability.

Fast forward and Zapata confessed to having murdered his wife and dismembering her body and in fact moving the body. And the body parts had in fact been stored in the places Eddie and Keela alerted to. abc11.com/archive/5966603/

It's laughable to me that people think that it's credible that remains were in hire car not hired until 3 weeks after the disappearance.

That people who had never visited a country before were able to locate somewhere close by to hide a body for a minimum of 3 weeks within minutes. A place that wasn't located in spite of an extensive search by police and locals and that they were then with the eyes of the media on them, able to move and dispose of the body without being seen, in a place it would never ever be found without leaving any credible dna evidence.

Yes, only nutters believe that theory. Like I said, no sound evidence of death, abduction, accident, wandering off. None of us know what went on.

I agree Twatty that the idea Madeleine's body was transported in the rental car 3 weeks after the disappearance with the world's media watching is ridiculous but the dogs alerted to something. From my understanding it didn't actually have to be a body but could have been something that a body came into close contact with like a bag etc and whoever carried that item to the car would have then touched the key and car tidy etc. That's not to say it was anything to do with Madeleine of course, I haven't read anywhere if previous users of the car were questioned. Perhaps a mortician hired it previously?

The Portuguese police chief's theory wasn't that the body was moved 3 weeks later either. Those dogs were brought in at the UK police's suggestion and they are trained not to alert to anything other than blood or cadaver. In fact Keela, I think, was of such value that she was paid more than her force's Chief Constable iirc. There was an article somewhere from before she was used in Portugal which I think then disappeared!

Sorry it didn't disappear at all. Here it is

www.google.com/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/top-sniffer-dog-keela-earns-more-than-her-own-chief-constable-1-2598394/amp

The footage where the dogs alerted to the car was telling as the handler nor the dogs knew what car had been hired

I've just re-read Kate McCann's book ahead of watching the Netflix series. In that she says that while the dog handlers didn't know in advance which was the hire car, it was the only one in the car park plastered with Find Madeleine posters which would have been a bit of a giveaway.

I didn’t notice any posters in the documentary. Even so, the dogs can’t read can they?

Wasn’t it her soft toy that was in the boot of the car? So what ever alerted the dog is coming from something that came into direct contact with Madeleine.