Madeleine documentary

[mentallyfacked]

New documentary due to be released on Netflix on Friday.

I've covered this subject quite extensively while I was studying law. I will be watching with a heavy heart, it is just one of those cases I can't let go of sadly.

Anyone else going to be watching?

Me and my children both liked throwing our cuddly toys around so cuddle cat coukd have ended up on the shelf like that.

I'm in the middle of reading through this thread but in reference to something Desperateforspring said pages ago. Apologies if it's been ruled out.

We went to this brand type of resort. Depending on age and apart from some afternoons off your children could literally be dropped off at 9am and not picked up until 6pm ish , they took them to lunch and high tea. In an evening they could be placed in baby crèche many nights or even evenings where there were activities and a disco and pizza.

We kept DD with us apart from activities she wanted to do as that wasn't our thing but there was a 6 year old in the next apartment who was literally there all the time.

It would have been incredibly easy for someone to build confidence with her in that time. DD finished the week on first name terms with the nannies and also the serving staff at meal times. If she had been with them following them round the resort all week I've no doubt she would have gone with them outside activity time.

Today 18:48 user1457017537

‘A nice dollop of snobbery towards the uneducated masses who shouldn’t have an opinion. They may, however, just have emotional intelligence.’

Eh? Surely the last thing these people who put up YouTube videos and create websites etc for the sole purpose of vilifying a family have is emotional intelligence.

In this case, emotional intelligence = the ability to read their minds and know it was them wot done it.

user1457017537 that makes no sense as a criticism of What Cole wrote

@majorcomit

It would have been incredibly easy for someone to build confidence with her in that time. DD finished the week on first name terms with the nannies and also the serving staff at meal times. If she had been with them following them round the resort all week I've no doubt she would have gone with them outside activity time.

That's really interesting.

I just read the Gaspar Statements. Wow.

Are David Payne and Fiona Payne still together? Obviously it doesn't mean anything if they split up but if they're still together I suppose it could be interpreted as Fiona Payne's certainty that he's innocent of what people allege they saw/heard

Yep jacksonmaine , my girl has some learning needs and cried on the plane home because she was going to miss two of the staff. One was a nanny and the other was the head chef who had made her pancakes to order each morning.

A member of staff could see the parents sat there each night, nothing would be thought strange if staff were wondering on site at night etc.

I've been reading Kate's book. She expresses a lot of regret, in fairness. But she was also keen to point out that as much as she regrets it, she didn't want the focus being drawn away from the main issue at hand; the fact that Madeleine was missing.

It's worth us all remembering that any quotes/sound bites they gave to the media could be edited to suit.

The more I've read around this case, the more I feel that Kate's first instinct is correct - she was taken. I don't think the parents were involved in any way. The documentary and subsequent reading really opened my eyes to the scale of the child sexual abuse/child trafficking industry, and the media silence around it. We don't want to face up to it, so we are don't - it's too unpalatable for a normal person, so we are shielded.

They made a terrible choice, no doubt about it, but they have paid for it in the worst way imaginable. For nigh on 12 years. They may well pay the price forever.

I'm a bit hesitant to post because I am not really sure what comments are allowed to stand and which are deleted, but anyway, here goes....

I watched all 8 episodes over the weekend, having not been particularly interested in the case before. I cannot imagine why anyone would think the parents are responsible for her disappearance. Well, if they are, all their friends would have to be involved too, which seems a lot far fetched.

Just a few points I dont think people have made, on this thread anyway.

1. The McCanns are doctors. He is a consultant, she has a background in anaesthesia. It is a bit ridiculous to suggest they might have accidentally overdosed their daughter. Do people really have so little faith in the abilities of the medical profession?

1. I do find their assertion that Madeleine couldn't have negotiated a patio door and a stair gate frankly laughable. In my experience, nearly 4 year olds can open any stair gate, and if they can't, they can certainly climb over them. But I don't fully understand the arguments for saying she definitely didn't wander. Maybe this was apparent to the parents in other ways...?

1. Some posters here have said, if she had got up in the night, she would have known where the tapas bar was. But I thought the incident of her asking her parents why they hadn't come when she had cried the night before was indicative of the fact that they hadn't told their children they were leaving them alone to have dinner somewhere else. They said they slightly brushed the issue under the carpet (and Kate then said she perhaps wished she had questioned Madeleine about it more). So, if they weren't telling their children they were having dinner away from the apartment, that means Madeleine would not have known where to find her parents if she had got up. So I don't agree that she would have known to walk down to the tapas bar to find them.

1. I have also read poster(s) saying if she had got up and walked into the street, people would have seen her. Well, they didn't though, did they? She either walked out of her own accord, or was carried out, but so far noone has come forward to say they saw her.

All in all, my observation is, that if, after 12 years, this evidence is all the programme makers could come up with, it isn't really surprising that this case hasn't been solved. Is there any suggestion that any investigation is any further forward, perhaps holding back information so as not to jeopardise the investigation?

No further forward in the investigation despite the millions spent on it. For the reward alone you'd have thought someone would have been grassed up.

I have just finished the final episode after, frankly, needing to take a break.

The high ranking CSE police officer is brilliant for the following reasons:

1 - he used his appearance in this series as an opportunity to say to the audience, "This is happening, this is happening in the UK, remember exploited children when you kiss your own loved child goodnight, and HELP US."
2- he draws a really interesting comparison with counter terrorism
3- he explains that a key difficulty is the wider population not being able to cope with graphic information (I agree, as I said I had to stop watching after a few episodes)
4- he says he originally suspected the parents but has changed his mind. I really respect anyone who can admit they're wrong

The whole, entire situation is so incredibly sad, and frightening.

Wish I had not watched this documentary now. It's warm outside but I daren't open my little girls window on vent as so paranoid.

Chocolateaddiction - stranger abduction is still very rare.

I made the point that an anaethesiologist could administer calpol successfully. I'm sure others did as well.

If she had wandered off as I'm sure they considered along with every other possibility imaginable, why was she or a body not found. She couldn't have wandered off so far that nobody would look for her/a body and continue to not find that for 12 years. Not plausible. It's not surprising the mccanns have come back to abduction as the only scenario that makes sense.

So any mention anywhere of DAvid Payne and Fiona Payne's marriage? STill together? or divorced.

There was a little boy who fell down a well recently - I can’t remember where. His parents saw it happen, and eventually he was retrieved but sadly he’d died probably straight away. If they hadn’t seen it happen though, it would be another mysterious missing persons case and who’s knows if they’d ever have found out what happened. So I can well believe if she did wander off, they might never find her.

I agree ASAS, Jim Gamble former head of CEOPC came over as an extremely clever, competent and caring professional doing one of the toughest jobs imaginable.

The dark web stuff was terrifying and I think the most harrowing part was when the mother of the missing boy went to Geneva to see the photos of exploited children and found the photo of her boy. I have no idea how she coped with that.

I'm not suggesting this happened, but I can conceive of a scenario in which a child wanders off at night, gets hit and killed by a car, motorist panics and dumps/buries body. As I say, I'm not suggesting this happened. But it could do.

It was in Malaga: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/26/rescuers-find-body-of-toddler-who-fell-into-a-well-in-spain

I never thought the parents had anything to do with it.

To me it seemed ridiculous that 2 doctors (a cardiologist and another anaesthetics trained) would overdose their child on sedatives find her dead when they did their checks, get rid of the body without anyone seeing, they had no hire car and they were on holiday in a strange place also to hide the body so well in this strange place that no one has ever found any trace of her ever.

Then they went to the other 7 people in their group and managed to get them to keep quiet about a death of a child. All in the space of a few hours.

The Portuguese policeman was saying Kate and Gerry put the body in a fridge for a few weeks until they moved it. It was ridiculous they were on holiday where exactly did they find this fridge that was in such a place that no one ever would find.

Then 3 weeks later they got a hire car and went to this fridge and with the whole world watching their every move every minute of the day they got rid of her.

It's ludicrous. I've no idea what happened to her nor does anyone else it's all speculation but I'm pretty sure it didn't go like that.

Also in the documentary, it was mentioned that Madeleine and the twins were all totally exhausted that day and Madeleine was asleep before the end of the story. It was like that they were abnormally tired.
Fiona also mentions this in her statement.
Maybe (pure speculation) someone sedated them that day to make abduction easier.

And any abductor wouldn't need to climb through windows as the doors were unlocked.
No one knows what happened.

Frangipane - especially as in the locality there was construction going on, roads dug up etc
After all, it’s been concluded that something similar happened to Ben Needham, following decades of speculation about gypsy gangs snatching him.

just watching now-this whole episode- 2 0r 3 I think-
with robert moret (sp?) spends way too much time on him
really pointless and irritating

As I have said before I don't want to think the parents were responsible and there is scant evidence to support any theory.

You are correct that their medical training would have enabled them to calculate dosage correctly (though none of them are paediatricians and therefore may not be as knowledgable about how children react to specific drugs) assuming they knew the children's weight accurately.

However, there are still so many possibilities - what if M was allergic to the drug? - what if she came down with a sickness bug, vomited & choked? Etc...

Whatever & however M came to harm, that group of GMC licensed doctors would certainly have had an awful lot to lose if it came out that they had been sedating their children to keep them quiet at night while they went out drinking.