Madeleine documentary

[mentallyfacked]

New documentary due to be released on Netflix on Friday.

I've covered this subject quite extensively while I was studying law. I will be watching with a heavy heart, it is just one of those cases I can't let go of sadly.

Anyone else going to be watching?

Medised was still available in the UK around 2011. I think it was withdrawn around 2012.

well said ,but probably not sufficiently sensational for people to pay attention to

I'm not suggesting anything remotely sensational. The opposite. I'm saying ALL possibilities should have been thoroughly, tediously, doggedly investigated all along by impartial, competent police.

I'm not even saying that I think MM definitely wandered off. Just that I think it's a possibility.

But they DID run the investigation for several years between the PJ ceasing enquiries and British police taking over. See the screenshot from Amazon I posted below

No, they should never have been left in that position. The PJ should have investigated it properly from the start instead of allowing the crime scene to be trampled over for hours, the boarders to remain open, the initial search to be done by members of the public with little assistance from the PJ or local police (who by all accounts didn't turn up until the second call was made) but none of that happened through no fault of the McCann's and so they hired their own investigators with money donated to them by willing members of the public. Most parents in their position would do the same if the they had the means and opportunity to do so. Kerry Needham herself admits she used MM disappearance to highlight the fact Ben was still missing.

Their own investigation didn't use public funds and didn't impede official enquiries so I'm still wondering why it is so important? Unless you know for a fact that the McCanns were presented with credible evidence something else happened to their daughter and demanded the PIs ignored it?

Can I ask, how do we know Madeleine was crying the night before? And asked her mummy why she didn't come? Is that just from KM?
Kate said that to one of her friends Who mentioned it in one of the interviews a few page back.

I think we're all at cross purposes here.

I don't think the McCanns were guilty of anything. Just that there was a vacuum where the professional investigation should have been.

Peridito - you’re still attributing things to me which I haven’t said and don’t think!

The mccanns can believe what they jolly well like. But to state things as fact which are not proven is different to just believing it.

You also seem to want to accuse other people of wanting to believe something sensational and extraordinary.... not at all.
It’s as simple as: there is no conclusive evidence as yet of abduction OR wandering off OR an accident OR a criminal act by someone in the group. Therefore we can each believe any theory we want (or none- I’m quite happy to admit I don’t know what happened.) But to state something as fact when it isn’t is not helpful.

It’s as simple as: there is no conclusive evidence as yet of abduction OR wandering off OR an accident OR a criminal act by someone in the group.

Yes, this.

It’s as simple as: there is no conclusive evidence as yet of abduction OR wandering off OR an accident OR a criminal act by someone in the group

But the only people who believe it is fact she was abducted are the McCanns themselves who are not in charge of and have no influence over the official enquiries therefore their belief is harmless.

I believe the most likely scenario is that she was abducted from her bed as it is the scenario with the most evidence to support it (though no conclusive evidence). I'm not sure what Scotland Yard believe as they tend to keep their cards close to their chest wrt MM.

Their belief is harmless as long as it’s a belief - ie: in their heads. To state something as fact when it isn’t is not harmless and I think has not done their cause any favours.

Kate said herself in interviews that Madeleine asked why she didn't come when she cried the night before. They said they didn't make much if it at the time...but then wondered if someone had tried to come in the previous night.

But the only people who believe it is fact she was abducted are the McCanns themselves who are not in charge of and have no influence over the official enquiries therefore their belief is harmless.

So that's where we disagree.

I think most people (general public) believe she was abducted because that's what the McCanns believe. (And because the McCanns ran a website, distributed posters, briefed the media, wrote a book and commissioned an investigation along those lines.)

I think the PJ very quickly suspected the McCanns and so didn't thoroughly investigate the alternatives.

I think Scotland Yard didn't get a look in until the case was stone cold, but naturally nobody dwells on that fact as it's upsetting to the McCanns.

That remark wasn't directed at you Cole and I probably shouldn't have said it all .
But as I'm sure you know if you spend much time on this subject there are so many instances where something relatvely minor is blown up by the media and taken and run with by the public .

Things get distorted and inflated .

I do know, btw, that what the mccanns believe doesn’t drive the Met investigation- they’re not that important!! But what they say and write most certainly does affect public opinion. I cannot state this enough times- I think a lot of the vilification of them is not simply for leaving their children alone. I think it’s their subsequent behaviour, their insistence bordering on arrogance that they ‘know’ what happened, their refusal to say they were wrong in leaving the children etc

But as I'm sure you know if you spend much time on this subject there are so many instances where something relatvely minor is blown up by the media and taken and run with by the public

Oh I know. Like Gerry's joke about not enjoying himself being taken as evidence of goodness-knows-what, upthread.

Plenty of tinfoil-hattery around this case.

But what does it matter what the general public believe? The only steadfast beliefs that could harm official lines of enquiry are those of the official investigators. We already know what the PJ believed and how that harmed the case and it wasn't that MM was abducted from her bed. Only Scotland Yard knows what Scotland Yard believes.

It's a shame they got involved so late on but that didn't happen because of anything the McCanns or anyone else believes. The McCann's investigation, though flawed no doubt, was surely better than no investigation at all which was the alternative until SY got involved.

acciocat - I did ask you to correct me if I was wrong ,I'm not attributing things to you that you haven't said .

Where do the McCanns say that it is a fact that Madeleine was abducted ?

Today 14:56 Frequency

But what does it matter what the general public believe?

Well, nothing so far as what actually happened to MM is concerned.

But you only have to look at these threads, the numerous websites etc to see that the public do actually hold very strong opinions on the case, and that the mccanns are vilified far more than other parents who have made poor choices. And I think that’s got a lot to do with what they’ve said and done (and not said and done) since the incident

Peridito- someone linked to various times and places that they’ve stated it upthread.
I’m hoping someone will also link to KMs book where she states that MM was abducted from her bed. I don’t own the book so can’t

But what does it matter what the general public believe?

I think it influences what incidents, behaviours, sightings are seen as significant and reported to the police, for instance.

I actually believe that the McCanns are vilified because of the PJ's flawed investigation. Until they were named Arguidos they had the support of the media and by extension the general public.

It's a shame they got involved so late on but that didn't happen because of anything the McCanns or anyone else believes. The McCann's investigation, though flawed no doubt, was surely better than no investigation at all which was the alternative until SY got involved.

Oh my word this is circular!

Yes the McCann-arranged investigation was better than none at all, but it wasn't as good as an impartial one and so that is a perfect example of a way in which their belief would have exerted an influence - on THAT investigation.

This is getting dull now.

Neither @acciocat or I have accused the McCanns of anything untoward or implied anything along those lines. I'm not sure why this is so contentious.

Try again;

It's a shame they got involved so late on but that didn't happen because of anything the McCanns or anyone else believes. The McCann's investigation, though flawed no doubt, was surely better than no investigation at all which was the alternative until SY got involved.

Oh my word this is circular!

Yes the McCann-arranged investigation was better than none at all, but it wasn't as good as an impartial one and so that is a perfect example of a way in which their belief would have exerted an influence - on THAT investigation.

This is getting dull now.

Neither @acciocat or I have accused the McCanns of anything untoward or implied anything along those lines. I'm not sure why this is so contentious.

The PJ investigation was hampered by the Tapas 7 and the refusal to take part in a reconstruction. Would English police have been able to insist on a reconstruction?

acciocat as already said ,the links do not give direct quotes ,they say " a source " .

You say the McCanns can believe what they like but shouldn't state it as a fact . But I've yet to see even a "source" say that they have used the word "fact" .

as I said before

"Surely it's unreasonable to expect the McCanns when they are talking or writing about their daughter's dissapearance - which they believe was an abduction and have no reason to believe otherwise - to always qualify their remarks with a statement to the effect that abduction hasn't been proven/we don't know what happened /something else could have happened / but some people disagree with us and believe she wandered off ?"

acciocat as already said ,the links do not give direct quotes ,they say " a source " .

I also linked to the McCanns' own website.