Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

Unwomanly? How would you know? What’s that even mean? So many questions.
I suggest jane finds another forum to shout at women and tell them how to be women. You won’t find converts to your cult here.

Unwomanly 😂 I love the fact that someone who has produced sperm think they are more of a woman than females are.

Its shows how clueless some men are about what being a woman actually means.

Hint: the definition of female isnt being nice

I never have even suggested I am more of a women than anyone else! Throughout this thread whatever I have said has been twisted into something else. "Un womanly" was a phrase used by the women around me, often being substituted with the word "unladylike" which perhaps I should have used in the context I was using.

Do you think I was happy producing sperm at any time? I almost did what Maxine threatened to do. The appendage 'down there' was disgusting to me and represented all that I wasn't. But I had an overwhelming desire to have children, which thank God we had. I then quickly had a vasectomy after the last beautiful child, and start the long process of change to my correct gender. You can either accept that or not. Do you know I don't care!!

As I have stated many times before, I am physically, psychologically and legally living as a women, surrounding by other women and the children, including my grandchildren. I am now at peace (well until I came onto Mumsnet!!) and living day to day in 'women's space' whatever that may mean.

I hope all other trans children can reach their object with more love and support from the women around them than I have witnessed on this site.

Jane with respect 'unladylike' is no better. 'Ladylike' is the expectation that females should shut up, be quiet and subservient in a way that men don't have to, otherwise their validity as a 'nice woman' comes into question. 'Unwomanly' is no different and many of use, who've been told to be 'ladylike' since birth, are sick of it and refuse to be quiet about issues we're passionate about.

Anyone with body dysmorphia needs the utmost support, it's horrific to live in a body you hate. But I'd much prefer a world where we tell children "you are beautiful as you are" rather than agree their bodies are disgusting and they must surgically alter them.

I should have said I'd prefer to tell children "you're beautiful as you are" and get to the root cause of why they hate their body parts, etc....

So Jane have you ever thought about how women feel when they emter a womens toilet or changing room and see you?

Does it bother you that those women are now left with nowhere to go, no female spaces to use?

If castrated males are women and use womens spaces...
Well where do we females use?

But Jane, I still don't know what living "100% as a woman" (again, how is that percentage quantified?) or even "physically, psychologically and legally living as a women" means.

How does "a woman" live that is not relevant to her biology?

(to be clear, I assume by legally you mean you have a GRC, but that still doesn't really answer my question as to how it is different to live as a woman)

My mum came round a few days ago in paint covered jogging bottoms and fixed my washing machine. Is she not living as a woman?

You said Hyppolyta: So Jane have you ever thought about how women feel when they emter a womens toilet or changing room and see you?

LOL, that just shows your stupidity and ignorance, let alone transphobia!! You really think any other woman seeing me is going to think "that is a man"?!!

After all these years I am just another woman going into the toilet, who looks like the average female, because I am female in all respects. Like any other women I can even have a conversation with others in the toilet and I am treated as I would expect; as a women.

You all really are hung up about all this, like a pack of hungry she wolves after there prey's weaknesses! I see many other women in "female places", like toilets who are all different. There is no single "look" of the women I see, no robots. They are fat, thin, pretty, tall, short, have short hair or long hair,, and I have never had a problem with any of them as my body is female; DO YOU understand that?? My body is female where it matters at my age, as my gynecologist will confirm!!

The rhetoric from you all on here is truly offensive, degrading, upsetting and reflects all the old stereotypes of men dressed as women that your brains still have in them. Well for your information they are transvestites and have nothing to do with women such as myself who are women, mix as women, go out in society as women, and live as women as you do. Even women who know my history completely accept and praise my female self, and now state they just see me as just another attractive women

But I do not know why I have to explain my personal life to you, and that is enough now!!

I came onto this site to discuss child transgender issues, but you have just turned it all into an unseemly trolly game to belittle me.

I said I came from a long line of strong women, with a daughter following in those footsteps. We do not and will not put up with this stupidity on a web site that is meant to be supportive and considerate, but obviously has a small group of trolls on it. No I will not leave - yet. I will see this through as I previously stated.

Spot on janekent shame there is still people like this trolling on mn. My son as came out as trans boy and it's a shame people still think in these ways. People like with closed minds are what make some of my son's life hell when all of the family have accepted him with open arms.

BeyondVicious you asked nicely:
But Jane, I still don't know what living "100% as a woman" (again, how is that percentage quantified?) or even "physically, psychologically and legally living as a women" means
How does "a woman" live that is not relevant to her biology

You also asked again, very nicely:
(to be clear, I assume by legally you mean you have a GRC, but that still doesn't really answer my question as to how it is different to live as a woman)

Yes, I hold a GRC which means I have gone through all the government and medical assessments to confirm I am indeed a woman. I have not only had all the corrective surgery required, but for 20 years now I have been on HRT, which literally changes ever cell in the flesh to female status. My brain is also female, as assessed by specialists in the field. This is also backed up by research that those interested in facts, not personal biased feelings, will be interested in:
www.the-scientist.com/features/are-the-brains-of-transgender-people-different-from-those-of-cisgender-people-30027

In addition, everything I do, as I live, is as a women and I could NEVER now live any differently. I make love as a women, go to the toilet as a women (had to say that for someone else' crude benefit), only have female clothes and shoes, wear cosmetics, cook, iron, do housework etc., etc all as a women! My big regret is that I never gave birth to any children, which makes me very distraught at times, but at least another women produced our children. But, that is true of all trans women and can be a fact with intersex people. Throughout my life I have cried alone all too often in my bedroom dreaming of being the women I should have been, but recognising by a strange quirk of fate my brain developed as female as my body developed as male (we all start life in the womb as female for the first 12 weeks). Specialist doctors have said to me that in my case, like so many others, nature got it wrong, just like with any other disability a child is born with. Hope this clarifies the facts, but there is so much more to this that doctors and scientists trying to discover, as per the article quoted above.

Thank you BeyondVicious for your objective questions and the way you asked them, which others on here could learn from.

Oh my god I'd love to see the police's reaction. Do quote my posts in absolute full to them, please.

only have female clothes and shoes, wear cosmetics, cook, iron, do housework etc., etc

Fuck. I really am getting this womaning thing all wrong!

What has transpired? Women stating FACTS?!

Love how MN don’t seem to care about posters getting threatened with the police.

“I will be touching down at police HQ”

From which planet? 😁

Jane I do think you've perhaps been misled by a lot of people if you believe HRT turns your flesh/cells etc female, and there is absolutely no such thing as a female brain (unless it is in a female body, the natal kind). we also do not "start life as a female in the womb until 12 weeks". sex is determined by sperm before conception even begins. Who told all this?! And who referred you to a gynaecologist when you don't have a vagina? I would be questioning the kind of support you've been receiving.

As comparing yourself to a disabled child, well...I have no words.

I'm going to step back now from you Jane as debating with someone who can't actually argue a point but merely shouts "trolls" (against MN talk guidelines BTW) and "transphobes" is not a productive use of my Sunday. We are not transphobic and a great deal of us do engage with trans women on this very site who actually try to explain what they think makes them female (how utterly depressing your half-attempt at a definition includes heels and housework) and how they're considerate to natal females, without the crocodile tears of "oh you're all so nasty". I also wonder if you are In the right frame of mind, mentally, for this kind of debate. But you can't pop on to a site which involves so many women and tell us you are female because you do housework, and not expect people to be shocked and offended.

YY @FissionChips and ignore certain types of troll hunting! 🙄

Can you imagine?

"Officer, these anonymous women online all said that men can't become biological women!"

"... what?"

"That I'm not really the same as them! That I used my sperm to have children! That a male body and male socialisation meant I couldn't ever know what it was like to be a woman!"

"..."

"They're not very nice or womanly or ladylike. My mum wouldn't have liked them."

"Fuck me then, let's blue-light it."