Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

So you used your sperm to have children, yet you are a functioning female?

Do you really expect us to agreee that a fully fertile male is a woman, just the same as any infertile woman?

The disrespect you, and many other men like you, have for women is astounding.

"If it starts to occur at 11 only I would be worried that there is another underlying issue, and that complicates the situation somewhat."

I agree as the three girls o know of both appear to be on the autistic spectrum.

"Hope this helps" it does because it confirms my suspicions in at least two of the cases, possibly all three.

I do think it is helpful of older transsexuals can realise that things are changing so rapidly even those reading up on the topic are struggling to cope and keep up to date.

both all appear to ...

So women born without a uterus, or unable to have children is not a women then?

Nobody has said this. Literally no one. However, anyone who has a penis is not female.

The failure of women to recognise the difference of sex and sexuality, which means a person can be gay, lesbian, hetrosexual, or a mixture and something in between, and gender identity, when you can have any sexual orientation, leaves me very disappointed

We do. I don't know why you keep saying we don't know the difference because we do.

What will you mothers do if your child is gay or a trans person like "Maxine"?

I'm fine with my son being gay. If he thinks he's female I'd be addressing what he Hi me makes a person a girl, not pandering to the delusion that he can magically become female

So Gunpowder Gelatine (obviously a tag name for someone who wants to be controversial and seeks power

Nah mate I'm just a Queen fan

You ARE a man hater in everything you spit out with a vengeance
Because I point out facts around toxic masculinity? Right-o. You are a woman hater so I guess we're even?

the failure of women except transwomen obvs. They are women only better.

It's very telling how many men who have 'always been women' manage to suppress that overwhelming urge until they get to the top of their profession and have children. I wonder why that is

Yes!!

And the have the nerve to rejoice because "we" can vote - you always could! If you'd been born 120 years ago you could. Appropriating women's struggles is wrong on so many levels I can't even believe people take this kind of thing seriously.

And FWIW I find you equating your mental health struggles with a woman's cancer absolutely despicable Jane.

You were not so distressed that you managed to have a successful career. You were not so distressed that you managed to father three children.

It's a lie that you were always a woman.

I'd be interested to hear your wife and children's side of the story. I wonder how they feel at being coopted into this fake narrative you built. I assume you consider them collateral damage.

FYI I have never read a post on here from a mother when she doesn't mention her children within the first few posts, no matter what mental trauma she's going through. You didn't mention yours until I asked.

Your narcissism is abundantly clear.

Some people cannot empathise. They only see the world from their own point and selfishly battle on regardless.

Maybe there's some study on this, but I'd guess more men lack empathy than women.

I think a lot of it is socialisation. Men just aren't trained to think of others first from birth.

’’un-womanly’’

Hmm, do they knit in Kent?

So you're religious then? Chinny reckon...

Un-womanly 🙄 because women are lovely to men no matter what, no? And as we've said MANY times we know the difference between sex and gender. Why can't you understand this.

Jane I'm pleased you can be the real you, I mean that and think you are brave for standing up against gender norms imposed on both men and women. How I long to live in a world where men can shed that imposed masculinity in a society where being seen as feminine is considered 'lesser'. I wholeheartedly support clothing no longer being gendered and boys wearing skirts and make-up if that's what they fancy. However, wearing skirts, being feminine etc does NOT make you a woman, never will, and claiming it does is the most regressive thing our society is involved in right now.

If you think that's a hate crime (lol) then by all means waste your time contacting police. "Hello officer, someone has hurt my feelings with facts". PM me and I'll send you my address, be easier than subpeaoning Mumsnet. Grow up, and stop picking on women.

Ladies and gentleman, this thread shows just how far some haven't come - women being told to STFU or they'll get arrested. Remind you of a certain movement last century? And you call this progression you need a reality check. Men have abused me, raped me, scared me, assaulted me, belittled me and repressed me at work. I will not be bullied by them any more especially not the ones who don a frock and claim they're the same as me.

The misinterpretation of 'sex' upthread to be referring to 'sexual intercourse' would have been much more understandable if anyone had referred to 'having sex' rather than saying 'sex is a biological fact'. It's quite clear which is being talked about. 🙄

I would love for Jane to explain what constitutes being un-womanly

Or do you genuinely think that women should behave in a certain way because they are women? And if they don’t they are somehow un-womanly?

Because that makes you a fucking misogynistic arsehole regardless of your gender.

I love how "unladylike" (not behaving like a lady while retaining the biological fact that one is a woman) has now morphed into "unwomanly (not behaving as biological essentialists would like so therefore no longer female). Weird, huh.

Do we think it's "womanly" to sympathise with men because they're soooo confused about how not to sexually harass women 🤔

Yet another insults and hurtful comment, with totally unnecessary language.

Think what you like!!

I tried to bring enlightenment onto this thread, onto Mumsnet, on the subject of transgender and I have been just insulted.

How very un-man like of you - thinking you're the cleverest person around, that women are lucky to have your wisdom imparted onto them, and throwing a strop when we don't actually like being told how to "woman" by someone born Male. If this is not Male socialisation I don't know what is.

I especially hate it when people come on, splurge a load of misogynistic nonsense, tell women o STFU on women's rights and then believe they have the moral upper hand because they didn't swear. SO unladylike of us 🙄

Enlightenment? You could say that - just probably not in the way intended ...

Misspelled 'entitlement'...

Going back to the show - I said earlier it would have made a better show had Max not been from such a dysfunctional family. Because he was it was glaringly obvious where his issues came from.

• A very typical alpha male father who thought he could bully his son into being boyish by merely being a 'role model'
• a very "boys like dinosaurs and girls like pink" approach - his 'before' room was very "boy like" and clearly not chosen by him, or the real him
• Separated parents, and shockingly a parent who says they left the because of Max's femininity.
• the need for Max to alter his appearance in a hair cut to appease his dad that he isn't 'feminine'
• an assumption that girls and boys can't be friends and that boys can't dance for fun

Had none of these factors been included, and Max was free to express his personality without masculinity being shoved down his throat, it would be more convincing that he had a true 'gender identity' rather than what the programme was, which is a clear confusion as a result of some pretty shitty parenting