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Telly addicts

Butterfly ITV

799 replies

Melamin · 14/10/2018 21:20

Anyone daring to watch? Glitterball

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

OP posts:
Datun · 07/11/2018 09:40

Aridane

I think the national newspapers have been favourable.

After the first episode I had a look on IMDb. There were about eight or nine one star reviews. Most of them twigging the propaganda aspect. And then suddenly an influx of ten star reviews. Nothing in between.

Interestingly one of the one star reviewers said that all the ten star reviewers were brand new accounts and not reviewing anything else. Recognising more propaganda.

But then. The one star reviews started to disappear. Including the one accusing the ten star reviewers of bias.

I've seen this happen before, with restaurants and services that transactivists decide are transphobic.

Nonetheless, it's chilling.

Datun · 07/11/2018 09:41

sounds of powder-puffery,

Love it 😊

Aridane · 07/11/2018 09:59

Thanks, datin - I had only seen a review in Metro or the Standard which from dusty memory described it as a ‘sensitive ‘ drama (Ithink)

Datun · 07/11/2018 10:14

Aridane

I guess it depends on several things like whether or not you would take it at face value. What you understand of the background. Knowing that talking about suicide on TV has very strict guidelines, which appear to have been ignored, etc. And why.

I can't possibly think about it any other way than propaganda. But that's because I'm seeing it through a gender critical eye and being fully up to speed with Susie Green.

Girlfrommars11 · 07/11/2018 14:24

I watched the last episode last night and just thought it was so crap.

What message are they giving out. UK medical professionals say not enough evidence to stop pubity, but ignore them and take your child to the USA for treatment and be portrayed as some sort of hero fighting against injustice.

I thought the show would explore the reasons for child dysphoria and the difficulties they face. This just seemed like a disfunction family doing everything wrong then celebrating because they are setting their child on a life long path of drugs, surgery and side effects. Where was the therepy? Also the message that the child knows better than the doctors is dangerous.

FekkoThePenguin · 07/11/2018 15:43

I saw a photo story recently of a f2m. Some of the photos were lovely - he looked really happy with his girlfriend - but there was also the 'reality ones' of scars, him in pain and quite a few of daily injections.

PennyArcade · 07/11/2018 15:44

I have every sympathy with people who have undergone the gruelling process, and surgery, to present as the opposite sex. However, I agree with posters that no amount of hormone treatment or surgery can make a man a woman.... But they go someway to allow a man to be accepted as a woman - and vice versa.

I have no problem sharing toilet or changing room space with anyone without a penis.

Can I ask Jane.... Having been through the traumatic process you have undergone to take away your "maleness", what is your view on "women" (and I use the term loosely), who have no plans to lose their penis, because sometimes they like to identify as female, but other times they prefer to identify as male.

If a man "feels" like a woman, wouldn't they want to get rid of the very thing that makes them male?

Sorry, I'm trying to get my head around how a man wants to be known as a woman, invade women only spaces, campaign for natal women to no longer be known as women, yet are proud of their maleness. Can you help me to decipher it please?

PerverseConverse · 07/11/2018 18:14

That's a really good question PennyArcade. I'd be interested in hearing what you think too Janekent3 because I don't understand it either. I expect its to do with genuine dysphoria compared to a fetish. I'm sure I'll be corrected though.

NopeNi · 07/11/2018 18:38

"I have no problem sharing toilet or changing room space with anyone without a penis. "

I used to feel like this too. After learning more about AGP, I'm not so happy about being co-opted into some male fantasies.

I also no longer assume that a transwoman has had surgery - isn't there a guesstimate that it's at least 80/90% who don't?

PennyArcade · 08/11/2018 00:15

That's a really good question PennyArcade. I'd be interested in hearing what you think too Janekent3 because I don't understand it either. I expect its to do with genuine dysphoria compared to a fetish. I'm sure I'll be corrected though

Maybe Jane needs time to think..

PerverseConverse · 08/11/2018 10:15

@PennyArcade I suspect Jane has flounced again and will come back as Jane #4.

BeyondVicious · 08/11/2018 11:27

Or has been totally not banned again...

PennyArcade · 08/11/2018 14:20

Beyondviscious

Yes, but that hasn't stopped them before.

Janekent3 · 08/11/2018 16:55

Thank you Penny Arcade for, at last, another batch of questions with a positive tone to learn:
Without repeating everything I have said before, to many I think in a very over bearing (manly) tone which I sincerely apologise for. That was never my intention, but please for those that have been offended (as I have by some of the replies) I HAD to grow up in a man's family and then World; First in a military family, and then in business that, although mainly employing females, was managed by MEN. I therefore, as someone trying to make the best of a bad life (oh yes, at 16 I was feeling very desperate) I went onto the management ladder, and then tried hard to succeed which included promoting women whenever I could. Just remember, PLEASE, that during these years I had to be committed to support my children, and crucially my dear wife, the female who came into my life at 16 and got me out. I knew this was very wrong for me, but I had to stick with it for the children until they left home with their own lives and careers. I, though was stuck in a horrible MANS world (so, yes I know what they feels like in a testosterone fueled, I am the best, competitive life) which I hated - toilets have come into this thread often, well I HATED going into mens toilets from childhood, and often used to wait until they were empty of men before using them, and using the cupicales. Yes, just like Maxine in the story, I wet myself in childhood due to this waiting!!!

This false male life then has all coloured my approach to organising others and giving commands, which I had to grow up with (however, please note I have known other women (biological) that have been far worse than that!! So, I try to use female language and methods in my life, but that managerial training still has an effect at time.

As for the latest question: I am a Gender Recognition Certificate holder whose Birth Certificate now reflects my "Female" status, which gives me the right to say I am a women as all the previous medical and psychological checks I could be classed as such. Now I have had full medical Gender Reassignment (the official name), being blessed with a vulva, vagina and breasts. This now means I AM (to correct earlier claims by others to the contrary) on female Hormones within the HRT classification; Evorel patches containing oestrogen, and Provera Medroxyprogesterone tablets as any other women receives on HRT. The only difference being this is for the rest of my life, with considerable health risks that after 20 years I very willingly accept!! And, believe they do make flesh change and become younger by up to 10 years wehen on a long term dose.

Now, the very reasonable question on "Can I ask Jane.... Having been through the traumatic process you have undergone to take away your "maleness", what is your view on "women" (and I use the term loosely), who have no plans to lose their penis, because sometimes they like to identify as female, but other times they prefer to identify as male?"

ONLY trans women who have undergone the full Gender Reassignment with the penis 'removed', should receive a GRC and be able to use female "spaces" (yes I like that term as well!!). I, as a women, YES I AM) with a vagina, etc, etc, does not want men in that space. A women can never trust anyone with a penis (as I well know from what a man did to me way back), and personally I do not trust men anyway!! They are predators, and I can say that after being allowed within their most inner circles. How even the apparently most faithful, loyal, loving husband / partner may seem, they can become monsters when sex could be on offer.

So, after trying to get away from a miserable "secret" existence as a child, and a long, slow, process to become the female I knew I was inside, I do NOT want anyone with a penis anywhere near my female space. Does that answer your query?

These comments could greatly distress some, such as M2F's that for very genuine medical reasons cannot undergo reassignment surgery. But, life is not perfect, and for the sake of other women the risk of 'women' with male 'attire' just cannot be taken.

This issue is going to become a major political discussion point very soon, but I know how I will vote!

Janekent3 · 08/11/2018 17:00

..........and just to emphasise some men who feel they are women, always have done since childhood, when knowing they were girls, DO have general medical reasons why they cannot get rid of the crucial 'male' bits. I feel very sorry for them, and can just imagine how they must feel, but in the interests of women generally, re-inforced recently by some who is considered a 'trans women' raping / assaulting women in a female prison. That is just not on, and I really would question that persons mental health and when / if they ever thought they were female!!

Janekent3 · 08/11/2018 17:11

Now that some of the dust has settled and I hope we can talk without insults from any side, I will just explain one thing I claimed before.

When I said all fetuses are female within the first 12 weeks, I meant to say that all fetuses do not develop their sex organs straight away and have a 'development' that can become either female of male, which YES will be decided by the X and Y chromosomes but this, quoting somebody else is what happens in some (like me):

" Sex and gender are two different things remember…
Sex is your biology, or more specifically, it is usually simply classified by what genitalia you have. Sex is ultimately more complicated because the Y chromosome doesn’t always determine the sex of a newborn, however, we always go by what sex characteristics the child has."

Now science is still not certain of all the facts as to why some of us develop in the way we do; with brains 'wired' in a different way than our sex organs suggest.

That is what I was getting at, but in the heat of the discussion, where I felt I was being attacked on all sides, it came out all wrong and I just went for a simple statement, which I use to explain why men have nipples; the classic question!!

BeyondVicious · 08/11/2018 17:13

So... Pulling the ladder up, you see it quite often.
It's almost as popular a metaphor as throwing women under the bus.

Janekent3 · 08/11/2018 17:13

PerverseConverse :
@PennyArcade I suspect Jane has flounced again and will come back as Jane #4.

No. I am still around and never just flounce off. I just go away for a breather, then come back to explain more!

Italiangreyhound · 08/11/2018 17:14

Janekent3 may i ask how you feel about the idea of a third space where there are toilets with walls/door to the ground, full enclosed with a sink etc as well as provision for females and males. I think these provisions would be good for everyone.

My dysphoric friend who is a child/teenager and doesn't want to use the men's but doesn't feel like a woman, men when I need to get to the loo quick due to IBS (although I realize these loos take up more space so may mean fewer actual units), good for non-binary people and for trans people and for anyone who wants to use them.

Jane "As for the latest question: I am a Gender Recognition Certificate holder whose Birth Certificate now reflects my "Female" status, which gives me the right to say I am a women as all the previous medical and psychological checks I could be classed as such." Please can you talk to us without the need to 'prove' your credentials, we are all here as anonymous people. I can say I am a female but no one knows if I am trucker from Slough called Dave!

You've explained your trans experience and I for one am very happy to hear your take on Butterfly and the expereinces you can relate from your own life. However, I sense you want the posters here to agree with you, some will not. And your efforts to get people to agree will only, I think, be painful for you.

In terms of your comment "ONLY trans women who have undergone the full Gender Reassignment with the penis 'removed', should receive a GRC and be able to use female "spaces". I can see the validity of this but I cannot really see how the law can compel someone to have medical treatment.

Janekent3 · 08/11/2018 17:16

BeyondVicious:
Or has been totally not banned again...

Never been banned, and the moderators are looking at all previous posts for the breaking of rules...I will say no more.

I have apologised to you all for my tone at times, so...........

BeyondVicious · 08/11/2018 17:18

Never been banned, and the moderators are looking at all previous posts for the breaking of rules...I will say no more.

Gosh Jane, that really sounds like a threat. I'm sure you don't mean it that way though, of course.

Italiangreyhound · 08/11/2018 17:21

Jane can I ask one more thing...

"So, after trying to get away from a miserable "secret" existence as a child" Do you feel things have changed significatly for children identifying as trans? If so, can children identifying as trans actually do so without the need to pass as the opposite sex?

If children (Butterfly dealing with a child, although the fact they only featured a natal boy was a real loss IMHO as they should have addressed natal girls too who want to be boys) might be able to socially transition without the need for drugs if the pressure was off o pass.

"This issue is going to become a major political discussion point very soon, but I know how I will vote!" Can you say more?

"When I said all fetuses are female within the first 12 weeks, I meant to say that all fetuses do not develop their sex organs straight away and have a 'development' that can become either female of male..."

It's something that is said a lot, all embryos are female, we know they are not because they can do sex selection in some fertility treatment for the sex of the embryo (usually only to screen for certain diseases that affect either males or females).

PerverseConverse · 08/11/2018 17:23

Oooh you nearly had me there, until you tried to bring intersex into things along with lady brains.

You e still not answered as to whether or not you are happy but I think your posts are a dead giveaway. Such anger, such angst, such desperation to explain how you are now legally female. I feel so sad for the little boy you were, and how that experience has shaped your body and your life.

Aridane · 08/11/2018 17:26

I took it to mean thithe mids were looking at Jane’s posts Grin

Janekent3 · 08/11/2018 17:32

Again, very reasonable questions Italiangreyhound.

In answer to *Janekent3 may i ask how you feel about the idea of a third space where there are toilets with walls/door to the ground, full enclosed with a sink etc as well as provision for females and males. I think these provisions would be good for everyone.

My dysphoric friend who is a child/teenager and doesn't want to use the men's but doesn't feel like a woman, men when I need to get to the loo quick due to IBS (although I realize these loos take up more space so may mean fewer actual units), good for non-binary people and for trans people and for anyone who wants to use them.*

Yes, already there are disabled toilets which can be used by people of any gender or anything else. The law expects anyone who has not completed gender reassignment to use them. So the law already is there and does compel someone to either have the necessary medical treatment (such as full reassignment) or use the disabled/unisex toilet in the public or works space. If you go to somewhere like France you will see (well you used to) many unisex toilets where you had to share the facilities with men; and there were either no doors or cut down doors!

Sorry if I am repeating myself, but I feel I have to as some are not reading / or not understanding what I have said in my very full (too long?) posts. With some things that have been thrown at me, I do feel my legal position has to be highlighted.

and you have reminded to answer an earlier question from another contributor: Yes, I am very, very happy with my life and for the last 16 years have celebrated every morning that at last I can live my life fully as a women, no matter what some say!