Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

NopeNi I am so sorry to hear of your infertility situation. Just wanted to say we had a lot of fertility treatment and also went on am adoption journey. If you ever want to talk, please do pm me.

Thanks Italian, that's kind. Sorry you went through it too

NopeNi yes, your comments are very helpful.

NopeNi we were very lucky. We have a fabulous daughter thanks to Assisted Conception and an amazing son thanks to adoption. The whole journey from 0-2 took just under 12 years. But was worth it!

Janekent This thread has all gone very strangely. I honestly think your intention was to help. I always try and look on the bright side of things.

Like many others here I do not think it is possible to change sex. However, I think many of us do have a great deal of sympathy for anyone whose life causes then difficulties.

The issue for me is that for young people we really do not know how things will he in the future. Life altering drugs should not be available to children and young teens etc. IMHO.

The desire to pass etc is totally understandable for transsexuals, however, in the current era trans women and trans men all seem to be very open, talking on line about being trans. So I think being openly trans now seems more acceptable. And should mean it's more acceptable not to pass.

How great if children and young people could be gender-non-confirming. Just wear what they like, be called what they like, live how they want.

I really think this is one of the things feminists want, freedom to be ourselves for women and men not to be over shadowed by toxic masculinity or even, does it exist (??) toxic femininity.

Female socialization is harmful to women I think. Maybe good for society (imagine the chaos if we were all socialised male)

I think, also, that we need genuine exploration into what causes gender dysphoria or any kind of dysphoria around biological sex. This won't, in our current climate, happen; because it would be considered problematic if we buy into the idea we all have an innate gender identity.

If, instead, we recognise so much of what happens might be down to socialization and expectations then we could begin to allow everyone to present how they wish without requiring every one else to agree with our views.

I really do hope Jane your current life has made you happy.

 for Nopeni

I guess @Janekent isn't coming back to answer my questions or anyone else's. I think the anger and misogyny displayed clearly shows that they are not happy since transitioning. Transitioning is seen as the magic cure-all but the reality begs to differ.

I was hoping for some fellow female sympathy and understanding

Ah, wimmin, you are supposed to be nice damnit.

There are some rubbish doctors out there, I must say. I know of one still recommending you don't give your chilld the MMR vaccine because it'll give them autism. I know one patient who lay in a bath for 4 hours a day every day for weeks recently, with vitamin tablets dissolved in the bath water because her doctor told her it was the best way to address vitamin deficiencies. There are quack clinics like Breakspear where you get charges tens of thousands of pounds for all sorts of magical treatments fir things like heavy metal toxicity. And here we have a man being told his cells have all become female and he actually has a vagina.

Just because you're a doctor, doesn't always mean you're talking sense, alas.

I'm actually quite insulted that any trans woman thinks they have a vagina. Women are so taught to hate theirs when they're really incredible things. They aren't fuck holes. They don't just exist to be penetrated, as Datun says. No surgeon can construct one out of bits of colon or penis or anything else.

Well, seeing as that claim was coming from someone who states that all embryos start out genetically female, and hormones change the sex of every cell in your body, I don’t think we can expect a great deal of actual accuracy/veracity.

PerverseConverse

Sounds like you are sending all the right messages to your children. Sometimes it's an uphill struggle to redress signals society sends but all anyone can ever do is their best. And you are.

One day the world will accept us as a day to day fact, as thank goodness the homosexual community is.

Yes, well.

Young lesbians are being told that unless they're 'queer', which means accepting trans-identifying males as sexual partners, they're transphobic vagina fetishists.

Gender non conforming kids who would very likely have grown up to be lesbian or gay are being drugged, sterilised & becoming young adults with children's genitals.

Gay men in Iran are forced to transition or face the death penalty.

Stonewall & other ex-LGB groups are now all about the T and 'Lesbians are female homosexuals' is attacked as hate speech.

At least in the days of Section 28 people knew state-sanctioned homophobia was a problem. Now it's repackaged as transactivist wokeness.

Well, seeing as that claim was coming from someone who states that all embryos start out genetically female, and hormones change the sex of every cell in your body, I don’t think we can expect a great deal of actual accuracy/veracity.

It is quite revealing though. It strikes me that for a very long time, with all this trans stuff slipping under the radar, medical professionals have been going along with (encouraging?) a delusion, possibly because they think they're being kind, possibly because they've seen dollar signs. I think doctors have actually said to Jane 'yes of course you are female' and 'yes of course we can fashion you a vagina.'

It exposes something about how trans women have been treated and it isn't actually very kind. Wtf have the medical profession been thinking, mutilating healthy bodies and pretending collectively they can get good results and make you appear to be the opposite sex?

Not sure if I said this before or if I gave up.

But I'd sooner believe hugely selective hearing, or someone lying to themselves so often that they believe it, over an NHS doctor saying "your cells will become female" or referring someone without actual female parts for an incredibly hard-to-get specialist appointment with a gynaecologist.

It sounds impossible if you only know healthy normal people - but once you've known a delusional narcissist, you realise that some people can really and truly believe their own lies. It's very scary dealing with people like that.

One of the older tw who post here regularly stated that they had to sign paperwork (as was compulsory) very clearly stating that they understood the ops could not make them female. So, chinny reckon to “my gynae thinks I’m literally female”...

I can easily still think of myself as having a male body even now, but I no longer yearn to have that body. It’s odd.

FissionChips that really does help, thank you.

I apologize!! I have returned to say sorry!
Sorry for the upset I caused due to me reacting badly to what I perceived to be a mass attack on my person, including some very hurtful comments, with some very stupid / wrongly phrases / crass explanations given by me when trying to explain the transgender condition. I was wrongly attacking after I felt so outnumbered and misunderstood. But, still, sorry!

I am not going to write my 'book' again, apart from saying I know exactly who I am, I am not mad, and have just, over the first 40 years of my life gone through hell and back to be me; female (yes, I AM legally as per my birth certificate post being granted a Gender Recognition Certificate, not given easily by the government for genuine, fully authentic cases - approved by NHS medical practitioners). I have a working vagina and since the age of 4 have always believed, and been emotionally, I am female. I have grown up in female circles, including work, and although loving my current fella and others previously, the majority of that species is completely foreign to me; I do not understand them, hate the way they act towards women, and how they have caused so much conflict throughout history. My father tried unsuccessfully (like Maxine in a way) to become "manly"; it failed! I have lost a large amount of money, (£35,000 just for treatment) property, and more crucially love of a whole family, at first that led to massive depression. I have paid a huge price to BE ME. If I did have any male 'privileges', I hated that life and have lost them!

Yes, I know, I have not experienced (very regrettably) child birth, periods (although I hemorrhaged on the M4, losing much blood, going through two packs of ST's, and soaking a white dress which was embarrassing, but par for the course) , and all the other things that happen to biological women. But I have been always around women who have including three with breast cancer, two dying, my weife suffering horrendous periods, being present at 4 live births, and also a horrific male sexual assault on me. Yes, I know, that does not automatically qualify for 'womanhood' from some of your points of view, but what else do I , or any other trans woman need to do more than I have.

I am never ashamed to say I AM FEMALE AND PROUD OF IT. 60 years of experience has taught me that.

I sincerely hope that clarifies the situation and just helps a little bit towards anyone experiencing a child with GD difficulties. It is not the end of the world, and my mother was eventually delighted to gain a daughter, and that could be your reward for sticking with it.

Still talking AT us?

Try talking with us, let’s have a conversation, listen to each other.

Still not answering questions then Jane.
I asked if you are happy now.
Others have asked how your children and wife have been affected.

What does "working vagina" actually mean? Does it secrete fluid to enable sexual intercourse? Does it lengthen and shorten at various times of the month? Does it have a rugged/ribbed texture that smooths out during foreplay? Obviously you don't have periods or cervical mucous that changes throughout the month. The haemorrhage you had was not a period like women and girls experience. So in what way is it fully working? how does it work?

I cannot say anymore and you will think and say what you will. I have said all I can. If you want further answers that are not on a personal, confidential nature, then seek that all from a gender identity clinic.

Goodbye

Janekent2 I do honestly feel some of these conversations on her are people talking at cross purposes. I don't agree with all you say but you also never offended me. So I don't need an apology, but others may like that.

Maybe these forums are not the best way to communicate so easily when things are massively divisive.

For what it is worth although I am female it is only a tiny bit if me, there are so many parts of me that are me. And I don't feel I need to convince others of who I am.

I am hoping there will one day be a space in between all these things, where each of us can just be ourselves. Sadly the current climate make it almost impossible.

These gender critical women here speak a language I totally get and understand, but for what it is worth I hope one day we will find some space to just be ourselves. I kind of feel nothing is impossible.

I hope you can leave this thread with a sense of peace.

PS These are my thoughts and are not meant to trample on anyone else's views here, all our views are our own because they all come from us.

So basically you can't answer the questions so you have a strop and flounce off. You came on here talking about your vagina and now when you're asked questions it's too personal to talk about it?? Yeah ok then.