Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

Shit, NoPeni, my post was insensitive following yours.

also to JaneKent, who I'm sure finds it hurtful that people's beliefs differ.

And FWIW women are not here to validate you.

Ha I'd never noticed NopeNi = NoPeni

Not insensitive at all, but thank you anyway!

One of the reasons I joined Mumsnet was to learn more about actual "being a mum" as well as the conception boards. I quickly saw that men generally get it easier in terms of the mental (and physical) burden.

No wonder some of them think womanhood and motherhood is easy, they don't have the first clue what it really is. I mean, I don't really, but I feel more understanding after decades of reading the boards.

(And "NopeNi" is a monty-python sort of phrase that me and DH use - I didn't spot that either until someone else pointed it out! Then it felt too apt to change.)

Years not decades. I'm don't think Mumsnet has been around that long. I certainly haven't!

Oh that's good to know, I'd always read it as the knights that say ni

I'd absolutely expect that a woman who has no children could understand the mental load of motherhood more than a man with children. A woman generally has the understanding of wifework already, and motherwork is just an extension of that, I guess.

Before

I didn't write that. I was quoting someone else, although I agree with it.

knowledge I have assembled on the subject from real specialists in this field, who are in turn highly qualified,

Wherever you have acquired your knowledge, it's not from specialists. You are repeating the daft rhetoric of transactivists about hormonal washes and female brains. None of this is true. Seriously. Sex is determined at conception, and every single cell in your body, including your brain, will be male. (Although I don't doubt the possibility of a propensity for a disassociative disorder like gender dysphoria - if you have it).

You have indeed threatened women and become aggressive. And if their reaction has made you tell them they made you cry, might I suggest that you are schooled in the art of exploiting female socialisation. And it doesn't really work much here.

It's evident that you suffer. But expecting women to collude in a lie to alleviate it, to their own detriment, will never work.

And frankly, I don't think it's helpful to you, either. Relying on the validation of absolutely everyone you come into contact with, is fraught.

Be a transwoman. Accept the difference. And leave women out of it.

Yes, it's all about the Knights

(Ironically Monty Python as a group saw this stuff coming and put it into a sketch. I hate that I now hate that scene because of the current climate!)

Sorry, I highlighted the word 'before' but I was addressing that comment to Jane!!

WDS, as always!

Ah, sorry to miSrEad your name- will engage brain properly!

Jane I wish you would stop saying things like fellow females, and that you are as much of a woman as we are. That is so offensive and it is bullshit! It's BULLSHIT!

I suspect the reaction is precisely why Jane keeps doing it, country. It's not a natural flowing way of speech for anyone to keep referring to "fellow females' - even if they are female! I have no doubt it is absolutely intentional and meant to wind us up.

Beyond, yes you're absolutely right! I know of no women who get on like that. We have no need. Jane just go and live your life and leave women alone why don't you?!😡

This is kind of apt... www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3414624-Josie-and-Poppy-video-Longing-for-a-Magdalen-style-take-down

But Jane, you wouldn’t have had your children had you had medical intervention in childhood. You’ve been able to raise 3 children of your own, to share your genetic make up with them, to be a parent. Surely you must agree that it is cruel to deprive another person of these things over a choice they made in childhood? I don’t know about you, but at 11, at 16, at 18, 21, all the way up until 26 I was not fussed about children. 27 was a lightbulb moment for me, I was happily married and I wanted a baby more than anything. Two miscarriages and a healthy pregnancy later and at 28 I became a mother. I sit here with the warm, soft body of my baby girl in my arms and I could cry I feel so lucky to have her. If you had asked me at 11 to make a choice I would have not given a damn! Please please before you advocate this think about someone else being deprived of parenthood not just your own personal experience, because you had your chance at parenting.

Hazandduck

Have you read the transwidows thread on here? It seems to be quite customary for not only the wife, but also the children, to be sacrificed on the altar of transgenderism.

Bloody hell, I've read some batshit "science" on here before but this thread is way out there. Hormones that make you 10 years younger and change every cell in your body??

So many example of Jane growing up in a very sexist and stereotypical environment and Jane now perpetuates that sexism and stereotypes by subscribing to them.

Very, very sad.

Are you happy now Jane? Have all your issues disappeared now you've transitioned?

So many example of Jane growing up in a very sexist and stereotypical environment and Jane now perpetuates that sexism and stereotypes by subscribing to them.

This is very succinct.

I'm sure most women on here see this. I thought it would take paragraph, after paragraph to summarise.

You've done it beautifully.

I liked Jane’s first post giving her take on Butteri. But it all went downhill from there

Thanks Datun! I admire all your posts and knowledge on this subject so that compliment has made my day 

The sexism and stereotypes were there like only neon lights on Broadway.

As a mum of an 11,9, and 3 year old I'm trying hard to break stereotypes and sexism and point it out. My 11 year old has just started high school and is coming home telling her 3 year old brother that he can't have things "because they're for girls." It makes me wonder what she's being exposed to at school. She's a girl who had a tool kit for her second birthday, had helped build furniture from 18 months by putting in screws and learning the right tools, she played football at primary school, climbs trees, gets filthy with mud, scrambles about in the woods, loves watching motorcycle racing with me, can make a bow and arrow out out twigs etc. She's no doubt however that she's a girl, even if by Jane's standards she doing girl all wrong, just like I'm doing woman all wrong with my mechanics qualification and love of motorbikes 

I haven’t seen that one @Datun although I do read a lot of the feminism threads I rarely comment on them. I’m here though taking in everything you and other informative posters write and my eyes are opening all the time. I’d never even thought of the ‘trans widow’ really, I can’t imagine how it must feel, must be awful :(

FissionChips and NopeNi you may not feel able to reply but if you could say how you began to overcome your gender issues, that would be very helpful.

I wonder if the doctors that specialise in neovaginas call themselves gynecologists to validate/placate the feelings of transwomen.

Because there is no way a transwomen has been seeing a traditional gynecologist. What would be the point?

No gynaecologist I've ever worked with has dealt with neo-vaginas. Surely that would come under the remit of plastics/cosmetic surgery? Urology at a push if to do with urethral issues but my money is on plastics.