Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

First I have never felt that I had any "privileges" as a male, because I never fitted into that role; I did not belong there

Wow it's like MRA bingo.

Male privilege isn't about "getting stuff" but the absence of all the judgement, discrimination fear and danger haz outlined.

I have always felt very sad about not being able to give life to children

You have THREE CHILDREN. How bloody dare you.

You posts make you just come across as a narcissist TBH and a very typical TRA

"You have THREE CHILDREN. How bloody dare you."

YY

As if women even fantasise all the time about the joys of pregnancies and Giving Birth part! (Or at least, I didn't. I just wanted our children; I accepted those cumbersome bits as necessary).

Thank you NopeNi and I’m sorry you had those struggles too.
It almost like certain types don’t like to acknowledge our existence.

Back to the reply to my question - I do not see the connection between having a GRC and going to the gynecologist TBH. But, getting rasther personal now but, I have had to see a gynecologist for an infection, on another occasion due to a urinary problem that was affecting the vagina, and a massive blood loss from a tear.

The connection is that in other countries you can just book a gynae, in the UK (which you must be in as you said about a GRC) you need a GP to refer you.
A GP should sort an infection, an urologist would be seen for a urinary problem - even in women when it affects their vagina, and your plastic surgeon would have been dealing with any structural problems. A neovagina is not a vagina, and a gynae no more qualified to look after one than an ENT.

I hated the subtle implication that Jane bled from a tear on their vagina, and had to see a gynae for that. As if this bleeding is in any way comparable to menstruation, or the bleeding after a miscarriage, when you actually wonder how you aren’t dead after losing so much blood. Don’t even go there with the bleeding after giving birth!

I know Jane never said this directly, but the implication was obvious. It’s so insulting to women!

I just don’t understand the obsession some people have with appropriating these bodily functions. Most women see it as a massive pain in the vagina!

When I had my long overdue vaginoplasty (not neovaginoplasty!) surgery, the stitches ripped. I rang 999 (and told them exactly what was wrong) as it was literally gushing out, only for them to tell the ambulance staff that I had "vaginal bleeding" - like I'd rang for an ambulance (on the advice of my gynae who I spoke to first) because I had my period. I lay on my floor with bloody pouring out for what seemed like hours, while the first responder chased up the ambulance as I was actually - funnily enough like I'd said - bleeding out. I honestly thought I was going to die.

I'm sure janes experience belittled Jane In a similar patriarchal fashion

Hazandduck
Jane, I didn’t want to be part of a pile-on. Please read the questions in my last post to you. I genuinely would like to know what you think would have happened had you had medical intervention BEFORE you had the opportunity to have children. It’s a big issue that 11 year olds will not grasp at such a young age.

After saying goodbye, I will answer that as you seem to genuinely want to know which I thank you for Hazandduck. Yes, I would have loved to have had medical intervention before puberty (yes, I know that is with hindsight!) but in those years leading up to 11 all I could think of was just being a girl and joining in with the girls when I could. I had no thought about children of my own, but actually at that age was allowed by my mother, having two children late in life, to change nappies, bath the two children, feed them, dress them and take them out which I just loved. This happened for about a year, and mum fell out with me about how I was; always crying, always not wanting to know other boys and not wanting to go out. But, oh yes, if only I could have had medical intervention it would have been perfect!!

It actually makes you appreciate old-school sexists a bit doesn't it? At least they never pretended women didn't really exist as they cheerily dismissed our general worries and lives.

These days I feel much more worried by delusional males who pretend that "female is a feeling" than I do by Nigel Farage and his ilk - and that's saying something.

I don't see how you can be sure that a known good thing in your life - your children - would have been fair exchange for a sterile adulthood and the unknown benefits of early transition.

Yet you are recommending that to children who 'have no thought of children of their own'.

Jane judging by your age (no offence, but I'm taking a guess you're over 60 as you're retired) I am guessing that any sort of femininity expressed as a child was a big no? That there'd be genuinely terrifying repercussions if you acted in a certain way? Assuming this is yes, that's incredibly sad and I'm immensely pleased that we live in an age where these days if a boy wears a dress and plays with dolls (as my son does) no one bats an eyelid. However, the progression quickly turns to regression if we then box that child as 'must be a girl' because of said interests.

Reading your life history I do think a lot makes sense - you essentially played a mothering role from very young and obviously felt 'maternal' - but to translate this to womb envy is deeply insensitive and short sighted. I wish you well and hope that you can go from this thread and get better support. I don't know where you read, or who told you, that your cells can become female, but I feel you've been drastically let down and misled at some point along the way.

Does anyone think of having children in the future when they're in adolescence?

I actively didn’t want children, the thought of all that went into it made me feel sick. I’m 100% sure people like Jane would’ve happily pushed me down the route of fucking up my reproductive system.

I now have a lovely DD.

I also didn't want children, I somehow ended up with two

Before I go, Datun you wrote:
You've insulted women, insulted infertile women, threatened with the police, lied wilfully about science and your medical treatments, and stormed off when we didn't capitulate.

I am very sorry I have come across in that way, but at times on this thread I have been so under attack I knew I needed to not only explain but also defend myself from some very upsetting and disturbing insults when all I wanted to do was try and explain transgender issues that for us are VERY real and will continue to affect me until I die. It is obviously my explanations, based on life experience and the knowledge I have assembled on the subject from real specialists in this field, who are in turn highly qualified, one of whom made me 'complete' as much as I ever can. Yes, I will NEVER be that perfect female in my mind; the enemy testosterone in my mothers womb made sure of that, and I am still suffering from that to this day. I was hoping for some fellow female sympathy and understanding, which I have always heavily relied upon even in business, but instead have come under a barrage of "You are not a woman!!" Oh, how nice! You wonder why that made me angry and made me cry at this end after all that I have had to go through from the age of 4?

Once more, I can say no more.

Jane, even if you'd been born female you'd still have the "enemy testosterone". Nice bit of mother-blaming though.

And again the assumption that no one here is "highly qualified" 🙄

You were male at the point of conception, not because of hormones in the womb.
I’m really struggling to understand your lack of basic biology knowledge

The enemy testosterone & not to to forget the Y chromosome of course!!! You are male/female from conception

Girls don't do science, fission. We knit and bake and umm... be nice.

You wonder why that made me angry and made me cry

Trying to excuse your vile threats?

I didn't want children at all until I hit 30 and something flicked like a switch when I was in a secure, loving long-term relationship and realised that I could love someone properly. (In fact, until then I actively scorned the idea, I thought about getting sterilised.)

Infertility and investigations made me suicidal and almost destroyed my life. Many years on we're living on without them and it's still a source of huge sadness and loss that hits me horribly from time to time.

I'll never get to see my husband holding his child and be a father like he'd absolutely love to be. I'll never get to do the million and one things that mums do with their children. Never give and receive that love, or know that relationship.

I appreciate I'll never know the total exhaustion and miserable, difficult and expensive side of parenthood either, I know, and there's no way to know if I'd have even been any good at it, but I wish I'd had the chance.

And now apparently my entire existence is now justification for making the label "woman" apply to men too - what?!

(Perhaps I should demand to identify as a Mum, cry at you all if you contradict me, buy a fake doll, tell everyone they have to believe I am one anyway, and then lecture you all on how you're all doing it wrong and how everyone believes me. It would be the logical equivalent.)

Surely it's the 'enemy Y chromosome' in your father's sperm cell that made you not 'the perfect female', rather than anything to do with your mother's womb

Anyhow. I wish you a long and happy life in your current body. I can see from your posts that being 'a man' may have become unbearable*.

But there are many names you could pick to describe yourself other than 'woman'. And there are surely easier fights to have than trying to persuade the world that 'woman' has changed its entire meaning.

*(though I do somewhat share the cynicism about the convenient post-offspring, post-career progression timing. If I have my time again, I think fatherhood looks better fun than motherhood.)

the enemy testosterone in my mothers womb made sure of that

Textbook misogynist - blames own mother. Maybe look to your dad whose sperm determined your sex