Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

Hazandduck wrote:
*Don’t actually know where to start (regarding Jane’s posts.) What a vile example of male socialisation and privilege.
I’ve noticed this theme emerging recently in the TRA’s arguments; transwomen are the same as infertile women and know how it feels.
I’ve seen some attempt to dismantle gender critical debate when GC’s (rightly) say for example “a woman is an adult human female capable of producing offspring,” and they respond “what about women who’ve had hysterectomies, are you saying they aren’t women too?” as if by bringing in to the debate the deeply painful experiences of infertile women, women who have had to have serious, life changing surgeries, they will somehow enlist these women whose suffering (as a result of their actual biology not their innate gender) that they are appropriating and exploiting for their own argument on to their side! It is beyond disgusting! My blood is actually boiling reading this.
No Jane, you are not a woman. No, you never will be. Stop comparing your struggle to that of the poor women who have shared their painful stories with you on this thread in an attempt to enlighten you. Your mansplaining is cringeworthy. *

First I have never felt that I had any "privileges" as a male, because I never fitted into that role; I did not belong there.

I have never said my, and other trans women's problems are the same as non-fertile women. I feel desperately sad for them, and have known them in my life. No, I was answering a previous question about being a full women, and explaining I have always felt very sad about not being able to give life to children; born out of me, not another women. You have misunderstood, not surprising given the complexities of this discussion, my feelings of being 'robbed' of that ability, and that to be a women you do not need to have all the maternity equipment in place in your body. You will always be a women in your brain and day to day functions, with hopefully loving people around you to assist. Sorry if that has caused offence, I certainly did not mean to on that crucial issue for any women especially.

As for your next statement, you are wrong. I am a women, always will be now, as I was a girl before but had the wrong body that gave me such pain and distress I find it hard to explain in detail. Your comments only increase that distress and pain again. That makes my blood boil like yours, but I have grown up to channel all that into helping others through my police work.

It is obvious though so many still cannot accept the our general plight and want to put us down. Funny enough the barrage of "misunderstanding" I have received on here, trying to explain the Maxine story, is nothing to the physical insults and hatred generally received from MEN in the past. I thought women would be more understanding, but hay ho........

Jane if you’re going to insist that you’re a woman you might want to learn how to spell it.

Jane I cross posted and see your update.

Thank you for apologising.

Hope that clarifies a little bit, but, I know it is a LOT to take in.

Your experience is yours. Believe me, we hear the identical experience many times over on here.

It's got nothing to do with the experience of a woman.

No one denies gender dysphoria, no-one denies autogynephilia. There are many trans people who comment on these boards, as well as geneticists and endocrinologists. Also, the ex wives of transwomen.

It's not lack of information that is the sticking point.

It's reality. And your refusal to address it.

‘Women’ is the plural of ‘woman.’

Hazandduck
*Jane I cross posted and see your update.

Thank you for apologising.*

No problem.!

First I have never felt that I had any "privileges" as a male, because I never fitted into that role; I did not belong there.

Privilege not something that you can opt in or out of. It's not anything to do with what you do or say.

You're privileged by being born. 117,000,000 girl babies are aborted because they are female.

Whatever you felt inside, the people around you would have recognised you as male and treated you accordingly.

Please don't use that tired trans narrative of saying you've rejected your privilege.

Your using it now.

Where are all the transmen beating men at sport? Clamouring to get into men's changing rooms and prisons? Where are all the transmen leapfrogging over women to identify into privilege? Where is their power?

Hazandduck
Why is your tone so patronising “it is a lot to take in.” No, it isn’t

Sorry if I am coming across as that, and do not mean to.

It is, no doubt, because I am feeling very isolated at the moment and under attack from people who just cannot understand what WE transgendered individuals go through THROUGHOUT our lives, often without the early intervention that Maxine gets in the story. That would have been brilliant for me and many others I have known, and avoided all the great distress we all go through.

Sorry though for the "patronising", but I DO understand how many still cannot understand and actually fear our existence (Toilets being a typical discussion area!!).

My CELLS have been made female, (and actually ten years younger than they were)

^Magic be real?!

But you don’t know that medical ‘intervention’ would have helped you, Jane. You’re an adult now and hindsight is a wonderful thing. You certainly wouldn’t have had your three children. Do you really want to deny 11-12 year olds that opportunity in later life? Don’t you think your mental health would have suffered terribly if you were infertile?

It just seems such a final decision to make so young, when really if parents just supported their children in what they chose to wear and how they chose to act I don’t think there would be any where near as much distress caused to trans individuals.

I fully support trans people in having a safe space away from abuse and judgement, I just don’t support it when it takes away from the rights of women. I don’t think any of the women here hate trans people.

Sorry though for the "patronising", but I DO understand how many still cannot understand and actually fear our existence (Toilets being a typical discussion area!!).

Nope.

Your privilege is less effective here. Because your power can only be backed up with words on an anonymous Internet forum.

Fairly daft and easily refutable words, it appears.

As soon as you realise that your power is not as effective as normal, you resort to aggression, demands to not engage, and threats of police intervention.

This is why women do not want men around them when they are in a vulnerable position. Men prove, over and over, that they will oppress women, given the chance.

And a grown adult man, with fully functioning genitalia, who has fathered three children, has no business recommending medical intervention on minors, which will render them permanently infertile, on lifelong medication and with no sex life.

Where can I get hold of this magic HRT that will make me 10 years younger.

You’re on cross sex hormones Jane not HOrmone replacement therapy. You never had oestrogen to begin with.

If the only way someone can feel mentally healthy is by demanding that everyone is else lie and remodel their entire framework of existence around them and their feelings, then that's a big problem. It's not sustainable. It's not okay.

Males cannot become female. This is not rudeness, this is not cruelty, this is fact - even if they desperately want to; even if they change their bodies and their clothes and make themselves into a vaguely passable clone of what a woman looks like to them. They're not really female.

Society can only accept a social lie for so long and then there are limits. Many of us used to accept it, and then we saw the abusiveness. The males who refuse to acknowledge limits are extremely dangerous.

You've been abusive and threatening on this very thread.

And Datun's right, you're privileged BECAUSE of your biological sex, even if you didn't like it.

If you acknowledged limits and reality, you'd have had many allies here.

@Madambatty I am sure thousands of women who postponed having children to further their careers (a difficult choice the vast majority of male born people will never have to make) would love to have this miracle hormone that will extend their fertility for another decade!

people who just cannot understand what WE transgendered individuals go through THROUGHOUT our lives, often without the early intervention that Maxine gets in the story

I was a little girl who wanted a penis, wanted to be a boy up untill my late teens. I used to stuff socks down my trousers, hated puberty and all the changes my body went through. I would literally see myself as male when looking in the mirror, fantasied about it.

I don’t feel that way now, though still dislike my body parts quite a bit and wouldn’t be at all upset if I woke up with a male body one day.

Im ever so greatful that I’m not a child with gender struggles in today’s society.

Right, I think I have said all I can on this, or any other thread on MN, as it is clear that fresh and new understanding of human conditions is not to be found much on here.

All I wanted to do was give some background and qualified insight, built up over 60 years, on the subject of child transgender.

So, job done. Goodbye.

Jane.

I wrote that in the hope that you will understand that we are not all coming at this from the same background.

Jane, I didn’t want to be part of a pile-on. Please read the questions in my last post to you. I genuinely would like to know what you think would have happened had you had medical intervention BEFORE you had the opportunity to have children. It’s a big issue that 11 year olds will not grasp at such a young age.

I don't see how, in any good faith, you can say to women-born-as-girls that You are nasty and totally ignorant and not worth talking to about their experience of being women-born-as-girls.

Surely your insight into 'being a woman' arises because of the experiences of women-born-as-girls, so you should be listening to them?

I get that some of your social experiences may be common to transwomen and women, if and when people genuinely take you to be female. But why on earth make the wild claims of 100% SHOUTY FEMALE AND WOMAN when you've already said that you are a transwoman and therefore male -- and therefore, because they are mutually exclusive, not female?

I mean, those of us here who ARE female, we do know what we're talking about.

Going back to your early post, Jane, I'd like to knw what would have happened if you had asked to wear a skirt at the age of 4, and no one around you had batted an eyelid: 'Here's Jack/Jamie/Jan, yes love, he's a boy in a skirt, just like you're a girl in trousers, and that's fine. Would you two like to get the playdoh out or the skittles?'

All I wanted to do was give some background and qualified insight, built up over 60 years, on the subject of child transgender.

You don't have any insight. You are a fully grown man with three children. A late transitioner.

You approve of transing children, because of your own desire to pass more easily as an adult. It's not difficult to understand.

You're one of hundreds of adult transwomen who say the same. Anyone is perfectly capable of reading Reddit subs, Susan's place, #girlslikeus, etc.

Present as feminine, knock yourself out. But please do not try force women to say you're actually female and children should be subjected to medical intervention for being gender nonconforming.

This is the second time a poster with your views has fucked off after I’ve said my lived experience of childhood gender struggles.

The notion of a "fresh and new understanding", where males can magically become completely 100% female, is BONKERS. It's batshit crazy. It's cult stuff.

You've insulted women, insulted infertile women, threatened with the police, lied wilfully about science and your medical treatments, and stormed off when we didn't capitulate.

Fuck that for a new notion of womanhood. Male attitudes like this are the exact problem we have.

Fission, I hear you - I was the same, really - pretend name, shaved hair, football shirts, socks and everything. It's really common in autistic women like me.

And as an adult who went through six miscarriages and ended up with no children, I am still flamingly angry that a male would compare that and say we were identical in our womanhood. No. Not a bit.

If ones male cells have been "made female" yet one acknowledges there is no change to their DNA, what - again - does that mean?
Do they now have proteins with little pretty pink bows attached to their membranes? Maybe some glitter in the cytoplasm?