Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

Many transwomen would not dream of co-opting female infertility. But, of those who are autogynephiles, it's a common theme.

The desperate need to see themselves as female, extends to preferring to be known as infertile women, rather than men who can't conceive. You get the same nonsense about having periods and lactation. It's very unpleasant to behold. Especially if you are one of the women who is affected by the specific issues. It's horrible. Nightmarish.

And it's their Stonewall endorsed inclusion under the trans umbrella that had hardened the heart of many women.

Datun- I have learnt so much from you.
Stonewall - don't get me started - had to sit through a presentation at work with steam coming out my ears! Upside met a v lovely GC colleague!!!

PixarMastermind

That's an occasion for a hip flask at work, if ever I heard one.

I cannot believe what I have just read on this thread.

Don’t actually know where to start (regarding Jane’s posts.) What a vile example of male socialisation and privilege.

I’ve noticed this theme emerging recently in the TRA’s arguments; transwomen are the same as infertile women and know how it feels.
I’ve seen some attempt to dismantle gender critical debate when GC’s (rightly) say for example “a woman is an adult human female capable of producing offspring,” and they respond “what about women who’ve had hysterectomies, are you saying they aren’t women too?” as if by bringing in to the debate the deeply painful experiences of infertile women, women who have had to have serious, life changing surgeries, they will somehow enlist these women whose suffering (as a result of their actual biology not their innate gender) that they are appropriating and exploiting for their own argument on to their side! It is beyond disgusting! My blood is actually boiling reading this.

A sweet, vibrant young friend of mine had to undergo a full hysterectomy just last year at the age of 25 due to ovarian cancer. She had just got married and would have loved to have children biologically with her loving husband. How can a person born a male, who has fathered three children, even begin to claim they know the pain she has experienced?

No Jane, you are not a woman. No, you never will be. Stop comparing your struggle to that of the poor women who have shared their painful stories with you on this thread in an attempt to enlighten you. Your mansplaining is cringeworthy.

I am sorry for your losses @Pixar and that you’ve had to read this crap.

In regard to the TV show, it is just reinforcing the old gender crap that is damaging to boys and girls. I thought the likes of Billy Elliot had moved us on from all this “boys can’t dance” 20 years ago!

I can produce sperm so I know exactly how an infertile man feels. EXACTLY.

Can't CAN'T I'm a woman!😖

Apologies for the derail but the co-opting made me very angry!
Back to the subject in question - I probably won't express this well but I can't see how this was entertainment. What has gone wrong that we are shoe horning people into narrow stereotypes? And then watching a drama where a child was put on the path to permanent medication, with very flimsy evidence.
I really really worry for children today.
Just to worry a bit more, we get threatened with being "reported " when we express said worries. Sometimes I feel like safeguarding no longer exists.
Thanks for the kind words and !!

Hmmm there should have been flowers at the end - not sure what I did! 

The emojis aren't working properly at the mo Pixar. I'm very sorry for what you've been through but it wasn't a derail. And I agree that a lifetime of medication and sterility is the reality but that doesn't make quite such a shiny happy story.

I meant to add in some 💐 💐 for you!

I thought you were going to delete at the offensive posts that break your guidelines.

A very offensive and hateful post that insults my actual and legal status as a women..

Janekent

I thought you were going to delete at the offensive posts that break your guidelines.

A very offensive and hateful post that insults my actual and legal status as a women..

Janekent

GunpowderGelatine wrote:
Jane I do think you've perhaps been misled by a lot of people if you believe HRT turns your flesh/cells etc female, and there is absolutely no such thing as a female brain (unless it is in a female body, the natal kind). we also do not "start life as a female in the womb until 12 weeks". sex is determined by sperm before conception even begins. Who told all this?! And who referred you to a gynaecologist when you don't have a vagina? I would be questioning the kind of support you've been receiving.

This really does highlight your lack of understanding about the transgender condition and all that surrounds it.

I have got a perfectly function vagina thank you very much, and the FACTS I use are recognised as such by the medical profession. All life in the womb starts of as female, but let me refer you to a specialist account:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4470128

Yes, I agree let you(who I have seen by your recent post has had a lot of man troubles and this has obviously affected your judgement, which I genuinely feel sorry about) and I discuss this no further. You will never understand.

Hyppolyta wrote:
*Jane no offense but I cant make it through your posts.

Im actually hurting with laughter at the claim hormones have changed your DNA.

Lets be serious, because youre talking to adults here Jane. We dont accept gaslighting. Biologically your sex is male, always has and always will be.

I really dont care what certificate you hold.
Grown males, fathers, have no place in changing rooms or toilets with our daughters.
Understand?*

You are another who shows their lack of knowledge, and does not read my posts correctly. Where do I say that my DNA has been changed? I do not!!
My CELLS have been made female, (and actually ten years younger than they were), that is why on have been on HRT for over 20 years. This is the fact that the medical professions in this field know all about.

Then your comment about my gender / sex and toilets!!! You really are lacking knowledge and now we will say no more, than you are not the law, not anyone important in real life and cannot dictate to me, a women, where I go and what facilities I use.

Enough said.

I have got a perfectly function vagina thank you very much

It's not 'perfectly functioning'. This is the problem. You see the role of a vagina as purely sexual. Something to be penetrated.

A vagina is used to menstruate, conceive and give birth. It has a purpose.

That's why it's not the same as a neovagina. Which is why women find it offputting when transwomen view them as purely something to be penetrated/looked at. Same old, same old.

Enough said.

You still haven't quite haven't grasped it, have you?

It's your posts that are been deleted, because you cannot remain within guidelines. You have no power here.

I don't have "man troubles" thanks I merely point out female and Male socialisation. Why do men get so touchy when women do this?!

You do not have an body part that would require a referral to a gynaecologist and the part you quoted from me is all accurate, foetuses are not all female until 12 weeks 🙄 and the link you provided debunks nothing and with respect t, is total tosh. No credible scientist would cite Adam and Eve. Like I say if I were you I'd be questioning the kind of support and advice I've been given. Someone is leading you up the garden path.

Are you going to apologise for your distasteful comparison to infertile women? Which has hurt an actual infertile woman on this thread?

My CELLS have been made female

No, they have not.

Please do research around basic biology. People on this forum are actual scientists not some dizzy woman who's "just a mum", you can't fool us here Jane

And YES to Datun - such a male viewpoint to equate "full functioning vagina" with "something that can be fucked". Rather than what vaginas are actually for. Your posts are deeply offensive and misogynistic Jane. I can never understand why people who want to be women hate them so much.

Another male viewpoint - "you're attacking me because You have man troubles" - or just maybe my views re women's rights have NOTHING to do with getting one over on men. I know a lot of men have trouble processing that not all women centre them in everything, but believe me when I say it's not all about you

Datun wrote:
*jane
I honestly don't know where to start your posts. I probably wouldn't bother, but there are very many transwomen who say the same as you.
It's not healthy, seriously.
The specialist has not confirmed that you have a female brain, and hormones will not change your DNA. *

Datun, as I have already stated to another individual, I have NEVER said the female hormones will change my DNA; NEVER.

This is where personal opinion is clouding the facts, and as you say there are many people on this site no doubt with many levels of professional skill. But I have the skill in the transgender area as a trans patient of decades, who has discussed with very many medical and psychological professionals in this field of continual development the facts behind my, and others, condition. Why it happened? What didn't happen? What should have happened? What can I do about it? etc., etc. Hours upon hours of discussion and research. I have lived and experienced so much that it would take a book to explain, not a few posts on a forum, that can, and have been often misunderstood by some. But simply it took me 40 years to recognise that I could do something about my condition, and leave all the crying alone, being isolated, not fitting in, and hating every single bit of what I looked like, fighting many decades of depression, behind. That WAS NOT healthy. In fact it was a constant threat to me existence.

One day the world will accept us as a day to day fact, as thank goodness the homosexual community is.

Hope that clarifies a little bit, but, I know it is a LOT to take in. Just imagine what it is like for a child to digest and go through, as I did.

BeyondVicious wrote:
If you have a GRC, that means you are in the UK, yes? So what precisely has your NHS GP referred you to a gynaecologist for?

I do not see the connection between having a GRC and going to the gynecologist TBH. But, getting rasther personal now but, I have had to see a gynecologist for an infection, on another occasion due to a urinary problem that was affecting the vagina, and a massive blood loss from a tear.

I've been on HRT for a few years since having a total hysterectomy.
I'm turning 50 on wednesday. But going by James assertion that their cells are 10 years younger now, that means I'm really in my mid 40's.
I have no idea why my gynecologist hasn't told me about this phenomenon 🤔

Apologies Jane autocorrected to James.

Jane, you are asking us to imagine your suffering which I am sure was very hard, yet you haven’t acknowledged that your words directly hurt women on this thread who have suffered infertility. Will you apologise? Do you realise life as a woman is very hard too? You spent a large portion of your life as a man. Did you ever ask your wife about her struggles as a woman? Every day oppression, sexism, the dismissal of your opinion as ‘not important in real life’ (your words to hyppolata)? Constant judgement over our choices as women and what we do with our bodies? Trans people aren’t the only ones who experience judgement believe me, women have this every day the difference is we are expected to shut up and get on with it. Oh and if we raped, attacked, victimised and abused, most of the time by men, we will have a battle convincing someone to believe us it even happened. Did you experience any of this when you were a man? Or think about any of this with your female brain for all those years you posed as a man/husband/father??

Why is your tone so patronising “it is a lot to take in.” No, it isn’t.